new invention for untying knot after whipper

[denalidave]

All though I heard that John Gill got so strong that he ripped his bicep right off his frame and had to have surgery to re-attach it. I guess you can over do anything.

 

You heard right. A disal detach of the bicep is a common injury for men over 40 that have a long history of physical exercise. Last count on Supertopo literally dozens of climbers, generally late 40s on, with a single or dbl complete distal detach. (bicep tearing off the forarm) Likely many more with partial tears that go undiagnosed.

 

With a quick (less atrophy) surgery, not that big of deal to get back on the rock/ice at the level you left it. Same council Gill gave me FWIW.

 

I just blew mine a few months ago ... Has not been officially diagnosed, but my right (stronger side) bicep is totally flat. This really sucks. Not sure what they can do after the fact. I had good insurance at the time of the incident, but do to my wife changing jobs, I lost coverage a few days after. I did not notice the bicep tear till about 3 weeks later due to all the other neck/shoulder injuries I got at the same time. I've been told it is easy to re-attach within the first month, but much more complex after that.

[ryanb]

I used to use alternative knots but have since found that, If one double threads the rope through the harness tie in point (creating an additional complete loop of the tie in point) that section tightens up first in falls leaving a standard figure eight with the Yosemite/Archie/Olevsky finish easier to untie while preserving its other benefits.

 

Plus I forgot how to tie the other knots during a stint as a boulderer.

Edited February 4, 2011 by ryanb

[Dane]

I did not notice the bicep tear till about 3 weeks later due to all the other neck/shoulder injuries I got at the same time. I've been told it is easy to re-attach within the first month, but much more complex after that.

 

I blew both of mine totally off within months of an initial tramatic injury.

Most surgeons don't want to reattach after 40 plus on age (which I call BS on) and even less if left unattached for a while, but always worth checking. Send me a PM if you are looking for a referal on a good surgeon.

[denalidave]

I did not notice the bicep tear till about 3 weeks later due to all the other neck/shoulder injuries I got at the same time. I've been told it is easy to re-attach within the first month, but much more complex after that.

 

I blew both of mine totally off within months of an initial tramatic injury.

Most surgeons don't want to reattach after 40 plus on age (which I call BS on) and even less if left unattached for a while, but always worth checking. Send me a PM if you are looking for a referal on a good surgeon.

Thanks Dane. Unfortunately, I don't have very good insurance now, nor the cash to get the surgery. I'm pretty bummed about the whole dealeo...

[JosephH]

I used to use alternative knots but have since found that, If one double threads the rope through the harness tie in point (creating an additional complete loop of the tie in point) that section tightens up..

That's not the case in the DB w/ CF that I posted above (or really any bowline variant).

 

...leaving a standard figure eight with the Yosemite/Archie/Olevsky finish easier to untie while preserving its other benefits.

There is a 'yosemite' finish for both bowline and figure 8 tie-ins but I find it disagreeable in case of bowline tie-ins due to it turning them into a visual mishmash.

[JosephH]

The whole bicep thing just cranked up on supertopo as well:

 

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1287552/Distal-Biceps-Tendon-Rupture-any-experience-info-advice

[ryanb]

I used to use alternative knots but have since found that, If one double threads the rope through the harness tie in point (creating an additional complete loop of the tie in point) that section tightens up..

That's not the case in the DB w/ CF that I posted above (or really any bowline variant).

Not quite sure what you mean? That a bowline tightens up just as much weather you use the double wrap around the tie in point or knot? Then why do you use the double wrap?

 

My experience is only with the double wrap plus a figure eight and I haven't scientifically tested it but I find that I can generally get my knots undone after repeated falls unless I am pumped out of my gourd in which case i might have to wait a minute. I suppose there are lots of other thing that could effect it ... type of rope, partners getting better at giving soft catches, type of harness etc.

 

 

...leaving a standard figure eight with the Yosemite/Archie/Olevsky finish easier to untie while preserving its other benefits.

There is a 'yosemite' finish for both bowline and figure 8 tie-ins but I find it disagreeable in case of bowline tie-ins due to it turning them into a visual mishmash.

 

Agreed but, as I said, i've moved back to the figure eight.

[markwebster]

I used to use alternative knots but have since found that, If one double threads the rope through the harness tie in point (creating an additional complete loop of the tie in point) that section tightens up first in falls leaving a standard figure eight with the Yosemite/Archie/Olevsky finish easier to untie while preserving its other benefits.

 

Plus I forgot how to tie the other knots during a stint as a boulderer.

 

wow, what a cool idea! Simpler is always better. I'm going to try that double thread through the harness trick. I see no reason why it should cause any problems to the integrity of the original figure eight. I guess it might tend to "pinch" the waist loop and leg loops together more than normal, but they are that way a lot of the time anyway.

 

I can see how that loop might absorb some of the knot tightness...worth a try anyway.

 

I don't like the sound of using a marlin spike. Those things looks sharp, and I don't want to be poking around in my hard knot with an icepick.

 

Part of the problem is my gym lead rope is getting a bit worn, maybe even flat-ish at the ends. So it may be more susceptible to over tightening on the short gym lead falls. I've taken falls outside, on my real ropes, and the knot never seems to get this tight.

[JosephH]

Bowlines are always relatively easy to untie - but the double threading makes particularly easy no matter how much diving onto it you do.