Ice vs. Mountaineering Boot Fit...

[CaleHoopes]

I'm putting this in the Ice Climbing forum (probably belongs in Gear Critic, but whatever...)

 

So, I've recently spent 3 days at Ouray. I have a pair of Millet Rock & Ice boots that have been giving me a problem and I have a few questions.

 

I have small feet (8.5 US mens or 41.5). The boots I have are 9.5 (a full size bigger). However, as soon as I started climbing in these at Ouray I was having problems. They are a leather/composite single boot with a full shank. The first problem I encountered is this... with Grivel Rambo 4's on the approach hike (about a mile) I kept turning my ankle while I walked. This sucked. But worse yet, when I started climbing, my boots were just too loose. By the end of the day, I couldn't even keep a purchase on my last route out. I felt ok, in that I got 6 top-outs in, but the last route was teh suck. I quickly ended up a Ouray Mountain Sports looking for a pair of 8.5's that fit. I got a pair of used Koflach Degre boots for $50 and they fit fine. The next two days of ice climbing were bliss in that the boots were stiff and I could control them. However, I'm worried about using these on high altitude alpine glacier mixed with ice/rock scrambling - because if my feet swell, then I could end up with a cold injury.

 

So, here's the question. Do I try to find a boot that flexes enough for a glacier high altitude route but has precision enough for rock & ice? At my shoe size should I worry about the swelling at high altitude enough that I should lose a ton of control on the ice? Also, I'm looking to fill this void NOT with a double plastic like the Degre, but something leather.

 

P.S. I'm looking at purchasing a pair of Nepal Evo GTX's to solve this... but I'm still confused about how to get it fit to solve my dilemma.

 

Thanks, your local n00b ice climber. Also, any advice you have DANE if you read this, let me know. I'm really just getting started on Ice but want to get my boots to the point where I can take them to Ouray and do Liberty Ridge & Kautz without much todo.

[genepires]

did you try a size 9 or 8.5 millet boot? Maybe you can try to return the size 9.5 and get a 9 from the same retailer in exchange. Just explain what is going on (with a little fudged honesty...maybe say that you used it one day but not 3 days) and ask for the exchange nicely. If they value return business, they may allow the exchange. Or they may not because you used it outside. If you clean it up enough, would they be able to even tell if it was used outside?

 

a size 8.5 degree may not be the same as a size 8.5 millet.

 

I have had good luck with nepal extremes (precursor to the evo gtx). The toe box is roomy enough to allow for the swelling, while the rest of the boot is laced so you can tighten they up as you need. For whatever boot you get, make sure the toebox is roomy enough but the rest of the boot is snug.

 

Glacier high altitude boot will prolly not have much flex in the sole. You will want a rigid sole for step kicking and crampon use. (what is your definition of high altitude?) if you are talking denali, then the only leather boots you will find (that you should be using) are the expensive serious insulated, integral gaiter boots like millet everest GTX. If you are talking rainier, there are more options.

 

As far as the boot you have now (millet) it sounds too big for even walking. (turned ankles) My technical boots are good for hiking in if I don't lace them up far. When I get to the steeper parts, I lace them good.

 

Fit is the most important part. You will need to try on many different makes before making the best choice.

 

You might be surprised about the plastics. Maybe you should do many climbs with them and see if your feet will swell up. Unless they are really really really tight, small swelling won't be an issue. If they are tight enough that swelling may cause issues, you probably can't walk in them very far anyway. (this applies to climbs less than 20,000ft)

[Dane]

FWIW..I keep hearing this, "if your feet swell at altitude" thing...not just in your post.

 

I climb everything in the same size boots...same boots I'd take to Denali or Nepal or the Alps are the same boots I'd take to Chair peak locally or Banff for a week of water ice.

 

I have different models for different applications (really cold weather, steep ice, long walks and hard climbing or just hard mixed, short of a fruit boot) but the fit is generally the same.

 

My suggestion is rent or borrow boots until you know the kind of fit you want, then try everything on till you find a boot that fit you and the purpose you want them for.

 

Here is a example. I tried on some boots yesterday the manufacture promote as a lwt mixed boot. They fit me exceptionally well. But the sole stiffness and the crampon attachemnt points made them worthless for my intended use. Huge dissappointment. The best fit won't over come the use just as a bad fit will make the best boot useless.

[CaleHoopes]

Folks, exactly what I was looking for. Those Millet boots are a few years old and don't seem to cut it for me - so no returns going on there. I had one pair of La Sportiva Trango S Evo's and they definitely didn't wear well - they kinda fell apart so I returned em which gave me about a $300 credit.

 

Dane, I definitely have wondered about the "feet swell" thing. I really haven't noticed much in the way of swelling in regards to my experiences at higher altitudes. My boots didn't feel confined at 19k in ecuador and I've never felt confined on Rainier (which isn't that high). Additionally, I didn't feel that bad with boots of my size above Ouray (around 10k).

 

Based on comments above, I think I'll look at the Nepal Evo's or the Scarpa Mont Blanc's at REI. It's like Purchase to Keep or Return (like Rent to Own). I will likely start with 41.5 euro and try that fit and go from there. These boots sound like the perfect technical boots for vertical ice to alpine glacier climbing. I think the Millet's might be too flexible for comfortable vertical ice and that's why I'm turning my ankle alot. With the stiff ankle of these two boots, I'll probably be a lot happier on the ice and they should be sufficent for the snow on Rainier. I'm really just trying to get a good boot option that will get me up the Turtle on Rainier but also up the ice chute on the Kautz - and will get me good props in Ouray.

 

I will pay attention to fit for sure. I've been really comfortable with plastics, but have had trouble with leathers - so this is my chance to find some workable leathers (note, its really pretty stupid to try to run up Tiger in super stiff leathers laced tight - I know that now)

 

Thanks for all the advice! Dane, your blog is spectacular - I read it all the time and its been great to hear your opinions on various gear. Thanks for supply a n00b with information without heavy spray!

[Dane]

Glad you have enjoyed it. It is fun for me as well.

 

FWIW the Nepal Evo is one of the very best alpine/ice boots around if it fits you well. And it seems to fit most. I love mine. Scarpa Mt Blanc is in the same enviable catagory.

[DPS]

FWIW..I keep hearing this, "if your feet swell at altitude" thing...not just in your post.

 

I've never had my feet swell, but on Denali it felt like my Intuiton boot liners may have swelled a bit but not signifcantly. Maybe it was just my brain swelling.

[Dane]

Good point, no question, closed cell foam swells at you go high.

If that is the inner you choose you have to think about it and manage your sock thickness to adjust for it. Not always that easy to do when your brain is fried, you are exhausted and you have cold feet.