perfect boot?

[OlegV]

Warm in winter, good on the approach (light) and mixed technical terrains. Hate stiff boots.

[Jon H]

2010 Scarpa Phantom Guide

[divnamite]

Jon, have you done any ice climbing in those boots? Two or three days trip out in the cold? Just wondering how they would perform.

[Dane]

Phantom Guide is one of the best..walks well. Climbs well. Warm enough. No single boot is good for 3 plus days out without a place to dry them out (or a very careful camper)..compared to a dbl.

 

But it has to fit...your feet.

 

Batura is similar. I like the Trango Extreme Evo GTX as well. My go to boot for most things local. Little chilly for full on winter outside the Cascades.

 

But trust me...there is no "perfect" boot. If I could only have one, it would be the Nepal Evo GTX. But then it also fits me very well.

[EastCoastBastard]

I've got a question for you, Dane (or anybody else with opinions on boots) - I've got the trango extreme evo, been climbing with them for 3 seasons now, and I think they're great except: the sole flexes when I'm frontpointing. I can actually flex them with my hands (both hands) if I'm holding them. What gives? It's a little disconcerting while climbing, but it hasn't stopped me. I'd far rather have boots that didn't flex at all. My previous boots were the original thinsulate/leather yellow Trango Extremes (circa 2003), and before that, Nepal Tops (and before that, plastics). Neither one flexed when I climbed, but these do. I've also noticed friends' Nepal Evo's flexing a LOT, and Batura's flexing too. I'm planning on getting some M11+'s this year if I can find someplace to try them on, as I've been told they're quite stiff, and they look pretty similar to the trango's which I really like other than the stiffness.

It seems like boot stiffness is decreasing at the same time that fewer and fewer people are using rigid crampons.

 

So, do you have problems with boot flex on steep ice? Did I get a bung pair? What's your opinion on this? Any comments on the M11+?

 

Graham

[Dane]

What size are your boots?

 

Kaylands are very stiff. Doug Shepherd says his 6001s are even stiffer than his M11s were and was able to go to a flexible crampon in his 47s from a rigid. FWIW the Kaylands fit me very true to american shoe sizes and fit my narrow feet very well.

 

The 6001s are single boots, so comparable to the Batura and the Phantom Guides. The fit is extremely similar to an M11/M11+, but a bit roomier in the toes. Kayland re-did their boot sizing with the M11+ and these boots, so you'll need to find them or try on an M11+ then call Kayland to get what size you need.

 

I LOVE them as they are very warm but low cut on the inside, so they still climb mixed and technical terrain well. Very stiff, much more so than the M11 series. I have to wear rigid crampons with my M11s, but can wear semi-rigid crampons with the 6001s.

 

I think Powderhound (Brian) is in the M11+..and seems to like them. Ping him on a PM and ask. What is Frieh climbing in these days?

 

Most everything flexes some now a days. (Kolflachs don't flex If you have big feet everything seems to flex! But my 45s Nepals I sure couldn't flex by hand! My Baruntses are even stiffer, they don't flex. I can slightly flex my Trango Extremes and flex the Phantoms in any version. I flex them all a bit as well as the Spantik some.

 

Obviously a pair of Rambos help but I like the light weight so I am willing to put up with a tiny bit of flex in the boot and use the Sabertooth, Dartwin or Cyborg.

 

45 seems to be about the turning point I think, 46s even easier to flex 42's way stiff.

 

I like a really stiff boot (ankle and sole) for steep ice. The more I do (amount of vert in a day) the stiffer the boot I want. But I have learned to climb much better, faster and with less energy with a less supportive boot..by climbing more like it is rock on steep technical ice. New trick for an old dog.

Not something I easily came to though.

 

But put me on 60 degree endless alpine ice and I want stiff..really STIFF. Which is why many will be on Spantiks climbing hard alpine ice. It is more like a ski boot than a climbing boot for support imo. Nothing wrong with that.

[EastCoastBastard]

Thanks Dane - I don't have big feet - 44's in the Trango's. And I'm a lightweight - 183cm and 76kg as of yesterday. I've been in Cyborgs for years. I have certainly changed my climbing style too when moving from plastics to leathers, and now that I'm climbing harder stuff.

Good to hear the kaylands are pretty stiff and fit narrow feet well.

 

Graham

 

 

[BigSky]

+1 on the M11+ fit and finish--fairly stiff, narrow-ish, very cool all around ice boot in my opinion. Giving the Hyper Traction a go this winter.

[Dane]

I don't have big feet - 44's in the Trango's. And I'm a lightweight

 

Seriously you shouldn't be able to flex the soles on the better La Sportivas in a 44. Being a light weigt even less so.

 

FYI the Hypertraction?...I tried some on yesterday...weird lacing system. Looked warm though. Be interested in what you think BigSky.

[EastCoastBastard]

Yeah, that's why I'm a little miffed, and looking for some different boots. The flex hasn't changed since the day I bought them - so it's not like I've trashed them. I've seen some Baturas that were easily flexed too though, about the same size.

 

I thought the hypertraction looks a little funky too. AAI liked them though... I've emailed kayland about the M11/hypertraction, and they said that they are both completely rigid (I shouldn't be able to flex them at all), but the hypertraction is stiffer. Great customer service by kayland - super prompt replies.

[joshzielinski]

Got some M11+ for this winter... Went to break them in and it felt like I'd already put miles on them. Very comfortable. I have smaller (size 9-9.5), narrower feet. Pretty stiff around the ankles. It feels like just enough support to save some energy while spending time on the steeper side of things.

[Jon H]

Jon, have you done any ice climbing in those boots? Two or three days trip out in the cold? Just wondering how they would perform.

 

Picked them up this summer after buying no less than 7 pairs of boots (MadRock Alpinist, LS Trango Prime, LS Nepal EVO, LS Nuptse, Mammut Mammook, and Scarpa Omega) and these fit me the best.

 

Haven't had a chance to get them out yet though, so no comment on climbing ability, but they sure fit nice. I have weird feet - low volume, extremely narrow heel, slightly narrow foot but with bonespurs at the base of both pinkie toes rendering my overall foot width slightly wider than normal, and a high arch. These hold my heel down the best and give me the best toe wiggle room.

 

We had a freak snowstorm with over 24" at high elevations so I've already started my backcountry ski season, ice can't be far behind. Will happily report in with pics and climbing impressions of the boot as soon as humanly possible. I'm itching to swing my axes

[summitchaserCJB]

If there was a perfect boot we all wouldn't own several pairs for different situations.