WTF! Climber falls on St Helens!

[AlpineGuy]

A very sad outcome, with lessons to be learned by us all.

 

Thank you, Kapman, for your recount and your service.

 

RIP, good man.

[summitchaserCJB]

No shit that is why you go get him or at least get a sleeping bag. That complacency is BS. Pisses me off.

[rocky_joe]

No shit that is why you go get him or at least get a sleeping bag. That complacency is BS. Pisses me off.

 

Are you serious? Have you been up St. Helen's? Have you a fucking clue? The cornice drops off for 50-100 ft vertical to overhung before it turns to a 70-80 degreee slope. Climbing St. Helens does not require a rope; it does not require crampons, an axe, or any technical gear. From TH to Summit it is a mere 5 mile hike, there is no need to bring a sleeping bag. So, riddle me this. How the hell would his partners get to him without technical gear? And once they got there what would they do for him as they were not carrying anything that would have saved him?

[summitchaserCJB]

Dude it is called a helicopter. If they can spend time hovering around they can drop off a team and technical gear. That is my point. They had several hours to do this and apparently didn't.

(and Yes I have been up Saint Helens. I'm not saying that decent wouldn't be hard or very dangerous...but really..

Edited February 17, 2010 by summitchaserCJB

[Frikadeller]

Climbing St. Helens does not require a rope; it does not require crampons, an axe, or any technical gear.

 

This is not true. I have climbed St. Helens quite a few times, and unless it's summer time and it's a pile of ash, (In other words, if there is snow) I bring my axe and crampons. Used the crampons many times on ascent and decent. (unless I am skiing.)

 

 

[rocky_joe]

Dude it is called a helicopter. If they can spend time hovering around they can drop off a team and technical gear. That is my point. They had several hours to do this and apparently didn't.

 

Read the report again. They didn't get a chopper in until he was already dead. They couldn't have, with darkness coming around 6:00pm and the accident happening around 1:00pm there is no way the response could have been fast enough to get a crew in (avg MR response times are 10-12hrs).

[summitchaserCJB]

Man. Guess I misconstrued it in my head. Unfortunate. They should stash that stuff nearby JIC.

[rocky_joe]

Climbing St. Helens does not require a rope; it does not require crampons, an axe, or any technical gear.

 

This is not true. I have climbed St. Helens quite a few times, and unless it's summer time and it's a pile of ash, (In other words, if there is snow) I bring my axe and crampons. Used the crampons many times on ascent and decent. (unless I am skiing.)

 

I used crampons for the last 200 ft or so...but I know of several people topping out without axe/crampons. I wouldn't go as far as to say that axe/crampons are required for a winter ascent, especially with skis.

[archenemy]

So sorry to hear about this accident. My heart goes out to those who loved him and knew him.

 

Condemning his partners is unfair. Ultimately, we are all responsible for ourselves when we climb. We accept the risks that come with our activities and the risks that come with picking our partners. There is no knowing how a person will respond to a particular emergency. And frankly, we don't even know how we will respond when we are in a dire situation. We take our chances.

 

I do believe that everyone involved with this event has suffered something traumatic and responded in the best way they could under the circumstances. Think about it: even simply reading about it is upsetting enough for us to evoke responses and emotional posts. Maybe later we will look back on our posts and realize we didn't really respond the way we thought we would in this situation.

 

Let's be mindful of the possibility that the people connected with this sad event may read what we have written. Imagine that one of those people is your best friend, your brother, you. And forgive a little.

 

And on a different note:

I just have to say thank you to the volunteers and rescuers. Every time I hear about the incredible efforts you give to help those in need, I am grateful to you. Thank you for providing us with something we can easily take for granted until we need it. It is an amazing and selfless gift.

[summitchaserCJB]

 

What is done is done. But we can learn.

"Ultimately, we are all responsible for ourselves when we climb."

Yes but we are also responsible for our partners. I believe this to be true, to a degree.

 

[archenemy]

As do I.

And learning from mistakes is imperative.

Blaming others for theirs is not.

[ZimZam]

Well said Archie.

 

"So sorry to hear about this accident. My heart goes out to those who loved him and knew him.

 

Condemning his partners is unfair. Ultimately, we are all responsible for ourselves when we climb. We accept the risks that come with our activities and the risks that come with picking our partners. There is no knowing how a person will respond to a particular emergency. And frankly, we don't even know how we will respond when we are in a dire situation. We take our chances.

 

I do believe that everyone involved with this event has suffered something traumatic and responded in the best way they could under the circumstances. Think about it: even simply reading about it is upsetting enough for us to evoke responses and emotional posts. Maybe later we will look back on our posts and realize we didn't really respond the way we thought we would in this situation.

 

Let's be mindful of the possibility that the people connected with this sad event may read what we have written. Imagine that one of those people is your best friend, your brother, you. And forgive a little.

 

And on a different note:

I just have to say thank you to the volunteers and rescuers. Every time I hear about the incredible efforts you give to help those in need, I am grateful to you. Thank you for providing us with something we can easily take for granted until we need it. It is an amazing and selfless gift."

[summitchaserCJB]

Well I do blame people for things they are responsible for. That is called responsibility and it is a reality.

I don't think the people involved are stupid or bad people necessarily , but I was rather voicing my opinion about what happened in the situation and what I might do differently.

What happened is tragic. But maybe it could have been prevented by being more careful around the cornice. In fact I'm surprised the guy got so close. Now blaming the guy is just stupid at this point. He knew that climbing is dangerous, as we all do. It is something we take on knowing that we may get hurt or killed doing it.

My .02.

But all that really doesn't matter. My thoughts go to the people that cared about him.

Edited February 17, 2010 by summitchaserCJB

[rocky_joe]

no need to blame someone for a mistake that doesn't affect you. especially when they've had to suffer severe consequences. that's low. We all make mistakes and hopefully learn from them, sometimes we can't and no one should be blaming us for making the wrong mistake.

 

I offer my condolences to the family and friends of the fallen climber. You'll be in my thoughts.

[summitchaserCJB]

I guess blame is a bad word. But I can't think of anything that could replace it. I don't mean it as in condemn but as assign responsibility for.

If I can't be held responsible for my actions, am I not a child?

Edited February 17, 2010 by summitchaserCJB

[Frikadeller]

 

I used crampons for the last 200 ft or so...but I know of several people topping out without axe/crampons. I wouldn't go as far as to say that axe/crampons are required for a winter ascent, especially with skis.

 

You're right. It's not required but I guess I always like to err on the side of caution. Anytime I travel above tree line in winter and spring I carry my Crampons and an Axe. I don't always use them, but it's nice to know that if I need them, I have them.

[JosephH]

I suspect the lesson is one around 'familiarity' and it's subtle effects on all of us. And it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that Joseph Bohlig might himself have warned less experienced folks of the dangers of getting too close to the edge up there. The losses of each passing year should teach us that every one of us is capable of the same kind of mistakes and it's well worth remembering that if nothing else.

 

No matter how you look at it, it's yet another tragedy and won't be the last among us - stay sharp and don't get too used to anything no matter how many times you've done it.

[Bogen]

This is exactly the sort of thing that could happen to any one of us. Let's not get too critical...

[rocky_joe]

 

I used crampons for the last 200 ft or so...but I know of several people topping out without axe/crampons. I wouldn't go as far as to say that axe/crampons are required for a winter ascent, especially with skis.

 

You're right. It's not required but I guess I always like to err on the side of caution. Anytime I travel above tree line in winter and spring I carry my Crampons and an Axe. I don't always use them, but it's nice to know that if I need them, I have them.

 

agree 100%.

 

Also, Joseph, you make a great point. It is tragic that it takes an horrific accidents like these to reminds us of such things.

[catbirdseat]

Every time one approaches a dangerous situation and nothing bad happens, the perceived risk decreases. The reality of the danger is unchanged.

[JosephH]

Every time one approaches a dangerous situation and nothing bad happens, the perceived risk decreases. The reality of the danger is unchanged.

Well put, definitely a matter of subjective experience vs. objective reality.

[BluNorthern]

Thanks for that, Catbird...says perfectly what was bouncing around in my head but couldn't quite express so concisely. I definitely think that in this case familiarity was a big factor in a momentary lack of judgment and respectful caution. Think I'll paste your quote into my helmet.