Self-belay set ups for soloing

[Five0]

Woke up today w/ a hankering to stir the pot a little, maybe get scolded at and hear a rant or two, so I'm throwing out this question: recently I've had the urge to solo an easy route near where I live but my sally-ish tendencies tend to out weigh my own balls (and IQ!), so I've also been brainstorming ways of protecting my skinny ass on the one, cruxy exposed section. What keeps coming to mind is using a via ferrata set up in leap frog fashion eg. place pro over my head, clip one strand of the via ferrata to it, climb above it and place more pro above, clipping the other via strand to that and then removing the lower piece (or pieces) from above, etc. So, here goes....can anyone tell me why this wouldn't work? (I'm sure BD would tell me NO WAY, but the user manual for their via ferrata devices state a 5 meter self-belay limit, meaning use a rope belay if the fall potential is greater than 5 m).

[DonnieK]

Is the via ferrata setup static or dynamic?

[Five0]

Dynamic. Its got "energy absorption lanyards". Essentially beefy bunjy chords.

[JosephH]

My advice would be go either fully solo or fully roped solo and not try to rig a short two move system - but that's just me.

[robpatterson5]

It might, but the gear that you put in - do you think it will be as strong as the bolts on Via Ferettas? I imagine they are at the very least using climbing bolts.

Do you think that the force of the falls w/ a Via Ferreta+leapfrog is going to be more or less then a traditional self belay w/ a gri-gri or cloves?

I wonder if the Via Feretta will not have fairly harsh falls, even w/ the screamer, and if they might not be harsh enough to pull gear?

[DonnieK]

If the via ferrata setup is anything like BD's new umbilicals, there is not much "energy absorption" by the bungy before you hit static webbing.

 

The other problem is that if you are going to be cleaning and placing gear so you always have something in, you are going to be placing a lot of gear and wasting a lot of time. And what if you hit a short section that doesn't take gear? Then you are going to have to solo it anyways.

 

[Five0]

yep, no doubt whatever I place is not going to be as sound as bolts but thats a risk we all take when climbing trad and I could always place multiple pieces. not sure about the fall factor versus gri-gri, etc self belays but i do know the lanyards aren't that long so the falls would necessarily have to be short.

 

and, donnieK, i was thinking of using this system only at cruxy sections that would take gear and free soloing the rest. i don't have the balls or the time to solo really hard stuff.

[robpatterson5]

-length of the lanyards has nothing to do with the fall factor

 

-How would you place multiple pieces - equalize them? You only have two arms on the lanyard.

 

-I heard of someone who soloed Dierdre in Squamish - they had 3 daisy chains, and pushed 3 yellow metoliouses up the whole climb and soloed the approach pitches.

[Five0]

btw, donnieK, what are BD's new umbilicals? didn't see them on the BD site

[Five0]

yep, two (or 3, or 4, ....)pieces equalized, w/ one lanyard clipped to a master pt. and correct me if i'm wrong, guys, but yes i think length of lanyards has everything to do w/ fall factor; if i can't go above my lowest clipped lanyard (roughly 3 or 4 ft, i'm guessing, since i don't have a via set up yet) then i can't fall any further than that, which limits my fall factor.

 

the daisy chain method sounds similar to this, except without dynamic absorption. but i guess if you have 3 of them placed taughtly then you won't generate any momentum.

[DonnieK]

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/climb/technical-ice-tools/spinner-leash

[robpatterson5]

Give it a go. I'd be interested in hearing reports of falls held w/ the system.

 

The equalized stuff sounds like a pain to make every 3-4 feet.

 

FF is fall length vs rope out. a fall of 20ft w/ 10 ft of rope out is a ff2 - a fall of 96feet w/ 48ft out is also a FF2.

Has to do w/ the ropes ability to disperse force and the amount of rope compared to the length of a fall.

The length of fall (force) is relevant, but not as much as the shock absorbing capabilities of the rope, based on rope out.

 

Depends how it catches you, but a fall onto your lowest lanyard at its full extension (say 3 ft) is a 6 foot fall. Which calculates out to a FF2.

If the upper one catches you it will be less - but (I bet) w/ a FF of greater then FF1.

 

You make your call.

 

Cheers, Rob

[ColinB]

Five0, check out the "Spinner Leash" on BD's site. Thats the new umbilical.

 

Why not rope solo the pitch either free or just french-freeing though the section you don't like?

Edited September 30, 2009 by ColinB

[Five0]

yep, you're right about FF rob, but hope never to test it on a 2. thanks for the input, yall. you probably won't hear from me again if the system doesn't catch a fall :-) but if it does, i'll let you know.

[ryanb]

Spinner leashes are rated for like 2kn.

 

Your system sounds like it would make you tired and more likely to fall...reaching up and down fucking with gear.

 

Really strong people die soloing.

[billcoe]

El Cap has been soloed more than once, successfully, with this staying clipped into a piece or 2 as you go system. I think an early speed ascent on Zodiac, but my memory is vague, maybe someone with some brain cells can recall this. Thinking of it makes my nads shoot towards my throat however.

 

I like JH's response, go free solo or full rope solo. I recently used the "Healy method", last Saturday in fact, and found it more reliable than the "Rhythm method": having survived it.

 

 

[matt_warfield]

El Cap has been soloed more than once, successfully, with this staying clipped into a piece or 2 as you go system. I think an early speed ascent on Zodiac, but my memory is vague, maybe someone with some brain cells can recall this. Thinking of it makes my nads shoot towards my throat however.

 

I like JH's response, go free solo or full rope solo. I recently used the "Healy method", last Saturday in fact, and found it more reliable than the "Rhythm method": having survived it.

 

 

Did anyone get pregnant because of the unreliablity of the rhythm method?

 

Dean Potter solo'd the Nose using one or two pieces at a time but he's a freak. I agree with the above- free solo or be safe all the time with rope solo. Or just take a partner.

[ryanb]

http://books.google.com/books?id=Tt0-o0IQopkC&lpg=PA170&ots=GTUdtjv0wk&dq=Russ%20mitrovich%20aid%20solo&pg=PA170#v=onepage&q=Russ%20mitrovich%20aid%20solo&f=false

 

Russ Mitrovich daisy AID soloed most of zodiac but broke out the rope for the one bit of mandatory free climbing he did. I believe he also later backed down off a daisy solo of harder aid route after realizing he was asking for it.

 

Dean potter free soloed most of the nose (no pieces) and only broke out the daisies for the aid sections.

 

Attempting to daisy solo FREE as I believe the op wanted to do would be a hugh PITA on anything besides sinker jams with frequently spaced placements.

 

 

[JosephH]

Leap frog free soloing has little in common with leap frog aid soloing relative to cleaning pro. Attempting to do this if you aren't a strong climber, familiar with free soloing, roped soloing, and aid soloing would be a bad idea in my opinion. One of the essences of soloing in any of the three solo modalities is rythmn. Breaking cleanly from one to the other for segments or pitches is one thing and I do that quite regularly, breaking it up for a move here and a move there I just wouldn't be willing to do and I've be free roped soloing and free soloing for decades.

 

But everyone has to find there own way with what works for them when it comes to soloing of any kind...

[eldiente]

I've never heard the term daisy solo but it has been something that I have done many times with success. My feeling is that if your soloing and placing gear, your on some hard terrain, may as well let your ego go and just French Free the moves and get it over with.

 

For this method. I rig two long runner with Screamers attached to them and leap frog the gear in front of me. This seems to be faster/less work then trying to free the moves while back cleaning the gear from a bad jam. If the gear is less then bomber, I'll sometimes rig a 2nd piece while I'm yarding up to place another piece. This is a great way to cheat way your way through a short crux an get back to the solo.

 

I've also had OK luck with a short rope (say 50 feet) and running it through fixed gear and making a few moves. After the hard climbing is done, pull the rope thorough the fixed gear and continue up. Sort of like an upside down TR directly off the anchors. This method only works for route with good fixed gear close to a hard section of climbing.

 

 

[JosephH]

It should be noted eldiente is a very strong and experienced climber roped or solo.

[layton]

i think folk are misreading your intentions. It i very common to daisy in to an "oh shit" piece to pull through a crux on a free solo and reach down and pull the piece. two daisy chains work well with a small assortment of cams and nuts.

 

if there is fixed gear and you have a rope, you can loop the rope through the piece for 1/2 a pitch to at least stay tied into the mountain.

[layton]

it's also nice to bring a rope on stuff like you're talking about so you can bail off a cam or nut in case you wound up in over your head

[layton]

all of which will be explained in my book of course

[JosephH]

I'm not misreading his intentions. I simply think in most instances it's a bad idea to switch mindsets and interrupt the flow and rythmn of free soloing by attempting to suddenly deploy gear mid-pitch. When free roped-soloing I do free-solo pitches, but I never attempt to mix unprotected and protected climbing in amy pitch. Doubly so if the climber isn't way solid and highly experienced climber. But again, that's just me.