Mazama's Intermediate Climbing School

[Lafayette]

Hi,

 

Just curious if anybody has any good/bad comments about the quality of the education given by the Mazamas. They run an intermediate school from Sept-Feb that I have been considering.

 

Has anybody out there taken it before? It's not until late in the course that they cover high angle snow. I'm just concerned if the class is advanced enough. BCEP, which is the pre-requisite, doesn't seem to teach all that much.

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[dan_forester]

I have taken this class, though it was about 5 years ago. When I took it I thought it was a good overview of a broad range of mountaineering skills, but it moved slowly. There were a lot of lectures and skill sessions in large groups.

 

I don't remember a lot of real high-angle snow practice but the crevasse rescue sessions were useful. If you're mostly interested in the snow stuff I believe the Mazamas also offer a snow & ice class. If you already have significant experience climbing you might find the pace and the limited curriculum of the ICS class frustrating.

 

I did meet some great partners in the class, so if you are looking for people to climb with, it's a good way to get to know fellow climbers.

 

Some of the folks who help out with the class post here occasionally; maybe someone can chime in with more up-to-date information?

[letsroll]

Second what Dan said. However the class has changed much since we have taken it.

 

If you are already climbing and looking hard at the steep stuff. You might consider the Advanced snow and ice. if you have only done oregon type peaks, (long slogs) then ICS would be good. They cover steep snow and ice as well as rock climbing.

 

You can get around BCEP if you have been climbing.

[elaine]

I haven't taken ICS, but went straight into Advanced Rock back in '03 when I was a Mazama. I know that the format and some of the stuff taught has changed since I was part of that organization. The Mazamas also offer some crevasse rescue weekend type classes. If you have the resume, and have climbed with some of the folks in the Mazamas before, you might be able to skip ICS entirely.

 

I do know that many of the people who have taken ICS classes in the past have met some really great climbing friends, and they've all gone off and done some fun peaks on their own after they did take the class.

 

Good luck!

[YocumRidge]

The ICS is a great way to make life-long climbing partners but in terms of the improvement of your formal mountaineering education I would choose ASI, AR and ski mountaineering.

While the AR is open to anyone who rock climbs at 5.7 and above, the ASI have certain entry requirements for the candidates to have climbed the Mazamas grade D and above, such as Rainier, NF of Mt. Hood etc.

[Lafayette]

Thanks for the information.

 

The corollary to this question, is how does the Mazama climb grading system translate to traditional American Alpine Grading? Is a 'd' level climb a grade III or IV?

 

I have received standard crevasse rescue instruction. Untested in a rescue situation, but still confident of my ability. Is crevasse rescue covered in BCEP?

 

I'm weighing the cost of a $500 instruction course, vs just a plane ticket to Columbia or.... for a real climbing adventure.

[Water]

BCEP does not cover crevasse rescue.

 

As others have said, and being a BCEP graduate myself, I think ICS is probably solid learning, but the time commitment is pretty huge, and I'm guessing the pace a bit slower. There might be something said for learning mountaineering/rock skills at a low-medium intensity for a long time as opposed to fast and tons of knowledge all at once. Whole difference of going to class all year vs cramming for a week as far as proficiency.

 

There is an intangible part of climbing partners that you will probably form in ICS (its practically a requirement), if you need/want that. Otherwise a 3-5 day intensive with some service could probably cover what you want to learn. Remember Mazamas are not a school or paid guide service or anything, but a club that offers classes that members volunteer to teach..can give a bit of a different style than an instructor being paid to teach, and that isn't to put a value judgment on either.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Water

[Digitalb]

As far as Mazama Grading system works is on skills needed to successfully and safely complete a trip. Here is further explanation taken from the Mazama Web Page.

 

"Mazama's climbs are graded to indicate approximate experience and/or ability levels required. “A” level climbs are technically the easiest, and “E” level climbs are the hardest. The grades are:

A - May require off-trail hiking, ice axe and crampon use on moderately steep slopes, and self-arrest.

B - May require off-trail hiking, ice axe and crampon use on moderately steep slopes, self arrest, glacier travel, and roped climbing.

C - May require off-trail hiking, ice axe and crampon use on moderately steep snow slopes, self arrest, glacier travel, and crevasse rescue skills, belaying, rappelling, and low 5th class rock climbing.

D - Ice ax and crampon use on steep snow slopes, glacier travel and crevasse rescue, self-arrest, belaying, rappelling and 5th class rock climbing.

E - Multi-pitch technical routes same as “D”, with high degree of self-sufficiency and proficiency using technical skills under high exposure, sharing high angle leads, setting protection and anchors."

 

I took ICS this last year 08-09. I had taken BCEP the previous year. I had very little climbing experience before BCEP. I thought ICS complemented BCEP very well. The way ICS is formatted is that you have lecture with the class together. During the Field Sessions you break up in smaller groups. You work with different instructors and Mazama leaders. Each instructor and leader teach the same general principles. Although each has their own way or style of completing any task. It was excited to work with different leaders and instructors just to see different ways to complete different tasks. As far as climbing partners I really haven't climbed with fellow students I didn't already know before. I am bit awkward and anti social so that doesn't say much. :-)

 

It is a big commitment! Beware of that!

 

Rock Skills - Sport Leading, Multi-Pitch, Basic Rock Rescue (Passing a knot on rappel, escaping the belay, rappelling with a injured climber)

 

Snow Skills - Placing Snow Protection, Leading up to 55 Degree Slopes, Basic Avalanche Skills(Reading Terrain, Hasty Pits)Beacon Search

 

Crevasse Rescue - C, Z, and all the combination of more complex systems.

 

The last field session you perform a mock high angle rescue. That combines all of the skills you learned.

 

I know I am leaving some stuff out but you get the idea.

 

I think the class is what you put into it. Last year the coordinator tried to group students and leaders to their skill sets so hopefully everyone was challenged.

 

Hope that helps!

[billcoe]

I most highly recommend it. Plenty of more knowledgeable posters have better details above. My experience is way dated: I helped teach the Advanced climbing school for a couple of years like @ 1984-5 or 86 or somewhere in there. Now they have split that up to high angle snow and ice and Advanced rock I hear. I'm not a Mazama although I've climbed with plenty as recently as 2 weeks ago and bump into them all over creation here and there, sometimes the full classes even. From what I have seen, you can learn via hard knocks and hopefully survive that, maybe with the help of a good mentor or 3, or take some classes. These are the most through, cost effective classes I've ever seen anywhere around here for climbing, and I guided and ran trips for both Portland Parks and Portland State University that involved teaching for many years. I know someone who just finished the basic, which I would have steered him away from that into something like the intermediary or advanced as he's doing first ascents to 5.10b on his own time (follows in the 5.11 or so range), but he was happy he did it. I hear 95% good about the Mazamas teaching programs. They are through and high quality if even at times a bit slow and a time suck.

 

Do it Will.