Dru Posted July 31, 2001 Posted July 31, 2001 Crags are not mountains. More climbers at the crags doesn't mean more climbers in the mountains. In BC in the last 10 years, the number of climber days spent alpine climbing has DECREASED. Meanwhile sleddding, heli-skiing etc. have increased. Government considers allocating backcountry usage based on # of participants. Less climbers = more backcountry icefields permitted to motorized recreation, basically. So I'm all for more climbers. C'mon up here and spend money! We got sport routes too.... Quote
Charlie Posted July 31, 2001 Posted July 31, 2001 I'm not at all putting down what you guys did- bolting that route was bullshit and chopping the bolts made a good statement. But, the chop job looks like hell. All around where (at least the first bolt was), the rock is totally scraped and scarred up. Quote
pope Posted July 31, 2001 Posted July 31, 2001 Last night I observed the scar left from the bolt that was chopped out of DDD. It needs a patch, but the damage around the hole is superficial and should eventually match the rest of that lichen-covered wall. Hey Cavey, I understand that you're proud of your involvement in this restoration, and trust me when I say I endorse the activity. If you need a beer or a pat on the back, however, keep it among friends. You didn't really need to go posting photos of your buddies pulling bolts. What the fu@k is that? Is it restoration or some kind of publicity stunt? I respect your action, but I also have immense respect for the guys who placed the bolts, inspite of their action. Your swagger lends no dignity to your quasi-environmental stance. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2001 Posted July 31, 2001 f  [ 09-19-2002, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ] Quote
Dru Posted July 31, 2001 Posted July 31, 2001 For balance let's get a picture of some Euro-type with pink-n'yellow Lycra and a big dangly earring power drilling up then we can offend everybody. Quote
Dru Posted July 31, 2001 Posted July 31, 2001 Hans Florine, 2 bolts in 6 feet, Yosemite... close enough.... [This message has been edited by Dru (edited 07-31-2001).] Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2001 Posted July 31, 2001 Maybe they were gonna change that name to Dan's Disrespected Direct Quote
Dru Posted July 31, 2001 Posted July 31, 2001 Maybe now they should change it to CCC? (Cascadetradclan Classically Chopped)? Quote
willstrickland Posted July 31, 2001 Posted July 31, 2001 quote: Originally posted by pope: Last night I observed the scar left from the bolt that was chopped out of DDD. It needs a patch, but the damage around the hole is superficial and should eventually match the rest of that lichen-covered wall. My sentiments exactly. The bottom bolt area is the most visible (it's only 9ft off the ground), and unfortunately incurred the most scrapes (1/2" bugger was a bitch). These scratches are very superficial, did no lasting damage or alteration of features, and the first good rain should render most of them invisible. They appear obvious because the newly exposed material is almost white, while the weathered face is dark grey. The remainder should be weathered to match the surrounding rock within a year. To be honest, I noticed the chalk "tick" marks from someone sport-dogging the climb more than the scratches. quote: Hey Cavey, I understand that you're proud of your involvement in this restoration, and trust me when I say I endorse the activity. If you need a beer or a pat on the back, however, keep it among friends. You didn't really need to go posting photos of your buddies pulling bolts. What the fu@k is that? Is it restoration or some kind of publicity stunt? He's Cpt Caveman, a cartoon character who was loud, obnoxious, high-strung. Ray is a good guy...funny, friendly, and I honestly don't think he's looking for publicity or pats on the back, I think he's just trying to put an exclamation point to the removal process. But, that's a question only Ray can answer. I've tried to weigh in on this thread when I thought it appropriate, and the temporary scarring of the rock is, in my opinion, a relevant issue. It is something that we tried to minimize, but in retrospect could have taken a few additional steps to minimize (such as padding the rock behind the crowbar). I have noted it for any future restorations. The issue is, in the grand scheme, a minimal one because as Pope pointed out, it is only a temporary condition and will revert to it's original appearance. Â Quote
Charlie Posted August 1, 2001 Posted August 1, 2001 Also, did you guys notice the new bolted route to the left? Around the corner from saints- there are bolts right above and below a perfect hand crack (#2,#1 chamelot wouldn't have done the trick?) and lots of places for small nut placements elsewhere on the "route." Notice the access fund sign in the parking lot?- it says specifically "do not place bolts on an exsisting route or places where natural protection could be used." Maybe they should offer Hooked on phonics classes at the climbing gym or the Hilti/ bosch stores. Quote
Yahoo_sucks Posted August 1, 2001 Posted August 1, 2001 Oh, alright - I lurk here a lot but rarely post, but I gotta say this... I wouldn't mind seeing ALL bolts removed from our mountains. You add a bolt, and it's not just a mountain anymore. Just like adding a road or a gondola. Just more man-made litter trashing up the mountains. Save the bolts for the outdoor sport-climbing gyms like Vantage or Exit 38. And I don't care if they break their arms patting themselves on the back in self-congratulation for doing it! Small price for a good job. Quote
Guest Posted August 2, 2001 Posted August 2, 2001 Couple of things: Re ope It saddens me when "good (great, superior, whatever...) climber" reputation weighs so heavy in the more general arguments. Funny: Now that usually ignored DDD is so popular it will be climbed more often, become very popular and later someone (else), unaware of these events, will bolt it! Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted August 2, 2001 Posted August 2, 2001 Rafael, Now you crack me up! Hahah indeed it is more popular than ever now. That is the only good thing about the controversy here. I will say that it is a very nice technical route Check it out! Quote
Jman Posted August 2, 2001 Posted August 2, 2001 quote: Originally posted by rafael: Funny: Now that usually ignored DDD is so popular it will be climbed more often, become very popular and later someone (else), unaware of these events, will bolt it! Wouldn't it only have become "so popular" because of this thread? So how would they be "unaware" of all of this... unless they're illiterate? [This message has been edited by Jman (edited 08-02-2001).] Quote
Dru Posted August 2, 2001 Posted August 2, 2001 But Jman - people climb it having read this thread. Then their friends climb it because they heard how good it was thru word of mouth. Then some guy walking by climbs it because its all chalked. Then some dweeb says to himself "I would like to climb that popular route but cant because ITS NOT SAFE! so I will bolt it up, even more people will climb it and they will all thank me for MAKING IT SAFE FOR THEM!!!" Right at this point is where we need to insert Caveman's club into this man's train of thought. One quick smack and its all over. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted August 2, 2001 Posted August 2, 2001 http://www.wilmcd.com/wrmcd/pages/caveman.wav Quote
pope Posted August 2, 2001 Posted August 2, 2001 Rafael, That the bolters of DDD are superior climbers does not weigh in on my opinion of their act; I never approved of the action, and I put a fair amount of effort into trying to convince people that such actions aren't right, no matter who is responsible, no matter what their abilities. Fact is, the guys who did this are superior climbers, and they're super-nice, high-quality individuals who've got a vast amount of experience in the NW. Their opinions might not agree with ours, and their actions might seem thoughtless, but they nevertheless deserve a little respect. My point was that restoration is appropriate, but maybe all of the posturing about it is unnecessary. If you really want people to be kind to the rock, you've got to get them to believe that your motives are in the interest of preserving the rock. When we make a big show out of our chopping party, one is left to wonder whether the effort is sincere. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted August 2, 2001 Posted August 2, 2001 Fuck Pope one dude asked me if you were one of the restorers. Not by the name Pope either..... You must have a reputation. Quote
pope Posted August 2, 2001 Posted August 2, 2001 I'd charge a bit more than $0.02 for that sound advice. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted August 3, 2001 Posted August 3, 2001 Nah. Basically I know who Pope is...... Quote
Dru Posted August 3, 2001 Posted August 3, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: Nah. Basically I know who Pope is...... Oh yeah? I know who Office Space is ... but I'm not tellin'. Its funny to hang out on the 'online' section of this site and watch somebody log out as one name and log on as another.... Â Quote
Kyle Posted August 3, 2001 Posted August 3, 2001 This has been a fairly interesting thread (aside from all the boring filler & posing of course). There's been a lot of talk about restoring this route. I'd submit that this route can never be "restored", which would imply that it's somehow returned to its original natural condition. It's too late for restoration...despite everyone's best efforts, the filled bolt holes and crowbar scratches will be visible to the discerning eye for years to come. The best we can hope for in this case will be a halfway decent repair job, and it sounds like our choppers did the best they could (& no I haven't been up there to see it yet). What's really sad and discouraging is that this whole discussion was preventable... if folks could learn to respect the natural structure of the rock, and exercise enough personal restraint not to bolt it in the first place, it would never need to be repaired, restored, or even argued over. It could just continue to be climbed and enjoyed in a near-natural condition by those with the ability and desire to do so. Don't be a wanker, and don't bolt natural lines! Just my 2 cents... Quote
Yahoo_sucks Posted August 3, 2001 Posted August 3, 2001 Would anyone care to post some tips and advice for removing unsightly bolts from your favorite pristine mountains? Maybe set up a website? Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.