JayB Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 As stated above, well done population based studies have shown no link between autism and the MMR...ever...with or without thimerisol. Can you point me to these studies? I'm interested in seeing how in depth this has been studied. There is a *vast* literature available on this. "1: Drug Saf. 2004;27(12):831-40.Links MMR vaccination and autism : what is the evidence for a causal association? Madsen KM, Vestergaard M. Department of Epidemiology and Social Medicine, The Danish Epidemiology Science Centre, Aarhus, Denmark. KMM@dadlnet.dk It has been suggested that vaccination with the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine causes autism. The wide-scale use of the MMR vaccine has been reported to coincide with the apparent increase in the incidence of autism. Case reports have described children who developed signs of both developmental regression and gastrointestinal symptoms shortly after MMR vaccination.A review of the literature revealed no convincing scientific evidence to support a causal relationship between the use of MMR vaccines and autism. No primate models exist to support the hypothesis. The biological plausibility remains questionable and there is a sound body of epidemiological evidence to refute the hypothesis. The hypothesis has been subjected to critical evaluation in many different ways, using techniques from molecular biology to population-based epidemiology, and with a vast number of independent researchers involved, none of which has been able to corroborate the hypothesis." "1: Clin Pharmacol Ther. 2007 Dec;82(6):756-9. Epub 2007 Oct 10.Click here to read Links Vaccines and autism: evidence does not support a causal association. DeStefano F. Statistics and Epidemiology Unit, RTI International, Atlanta, Georgia, USA. fdestefano@rti.org A suggested association between certain childhood vaccines and autism has been one of the most contentious vaccine safety controversies in recent years. Despite compelling scientific evidence against a causal association, many parents and parent advocacy groups continue to suspect that vaccines, particularly measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine and thimerosal-containing vaccines (TCVs), can cause autism." Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, It might be worthwhile for you to look through the literature in Pubmed. If there are any journal articles that you find that you'd like to get PDF reprints of, shoot me a PM and I can send it to you via e-mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 As stated above, well done population based studies have shown no link between autism and the MMR...ever...with or without thimerisol. Can you point me to these studies? I'm interested in seeing how in depth this has been studied. JayB et al....one of anecdotes in this thread and elsewhere is that the those that choose not to vaccinate are either religious wackos, or paranoid ignorants gobbling up conspiracy theories. The irony is that one of the primary discouragers of the MMR vaccination is Dr. Sears, the father of attachment parenting (family bed, anti sleep training, etc.). His reason for not giving your infant the MMR vaccine is that, according to him, the probability of side effects from the vaccine are greater than the odds of contracting the diseases themselves. You can choose to agree or disagree with this reasoning, but it's still REASONing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 As stated above, well done population based studies have shown no link between autism and the MMR...ever...with or without thimerisol. Can you point me to these studies? I'm interested in seeing how in depth this has been studied. There is a *vast* literature available on this. "1: Drug Saf. 2004;27(12):831-40.Links MMR vaccination and autism : what is the evidence for a causal association? Madsen KM, Vestergaard M. Department of Epidemiology and Social Medicine, The Danish Epidemiology Science Centre, Aarhus, Denmark. KMM@dadlnet.dk It has been suggested that vaccination with the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine causes autism. The wide-scale use of the MMR vaccine has been reported to coincide with the apparent increase in the incidence of autism. Case reports have described children who developed signs of both developmental regression and gastrointestinal symptoms shortly after MMR vaccination.A review of the literature revealed no convincing scientific evidence to support a causal relationship between the use of MMR vaccines and autism. No primate models exist to support the hypothesis. The biological plausibility remains questionable and there is a sound body of epidemiological evidence to refute the hypothesis. The hypothesis has been subjected to critical evaluation in many different ways, using techniques from molecular biology to population-based epidemiology, and with a vast number of independent researchers involved, none of which has been able to corroborate the hypothesis." "1: Clin Pharmacol Ther. 2007 Dec;82(6):756-9. Epub 2007 Oct 10.Click here to read Links Vaccines and autism: evidence does not support a causal association. DeStefano F. Statistics and Epidemiology Unit, RTI International, Atlanta, Georgia, USA. fdestefano@rti.org A suggested association between certain childhood vaccines and autism has been one of the most contentious vaccine safety controversies in recent years. Despite compelling scientific evidence against a causal association, many parents and parent advocacy groups continue to suspect that vaccines, particularly measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine and thimerosal-containing vaccines (TCVs), can cause autism." Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, It might be worthwhile for you to look through the literature in Pubmed. If there are any journal articles that you find that you'd like to get PDF reprints of, shoot me a PM and I can send it to you via e-mail. JayB - are you a parent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 As stated above, well done population based studies have shown no link between autism and the MMR...ever...with or without thimerisol. Can you point me to these studies? I'm interested in seeing how in depth this has been studied. JayB et al....one of anecdotes in this thread and elsewhere is that the those that choose not to vaccinate are either religious wackos, or paranoid ignorants gobbling up conspiracy theories. The irony is that one of the primary discouragers of the MMR vaccination is Dr. Sears, the father of attachment parenting (family bed, anti sleep training, etc.). His reason for not giving your infant the MMR vaccine is that, according to him, the probability of side effects from the vaccine are greater than the odds of contracting the diseases themselves. You can choose to agree or disagree with this reasoning, but it's still REASONing. It might be a side effect of literally going days at a time when I don't interact with anyone who isn't an M.D., a PhD in the life sciences, or a combination of both - but I no longer automatically grant these folks the same deference when they're speaking on topics that are not strictly within the scope of their professional competence. My hunch is that the guy's position on vaccination relegates him to the lunatic fringe amongst those M.D.s or M.D./PhD's who specialize in these matters, and who are most competent to evaluate the validity of his claims. Depending on the risks that we're talking about, which presumably excludes autism in the case that this Dr. puts forth, I agree - there's a certain kind of reasoning at work here. However, my own unqualified position is that this guy's stance is highly contingent on the assumption that the vast majority of parents will continue to vaccinate their children against these diseases - and that if that this changes because significant numbers of parents heed his advice on these matters - we'll see a rapid resurgence in the incidence of these diseases, and the risks to unvaccinated children will escalate until enough children are killed or debilitated by them to knock the complacency out of parents. I said earlier that if parents choose not to vaccinate their children - I'm not comfortable with a state that's powerful and intrusive enough to compel them to do so - but if they choose to piss in the proverbial pot of public immunity, then I'm quite comfortable granting schools, employers, etc the right to exclude them based on the risk that their absence of immunity poses to others around them. I'm not a parent at the moment, but I'm certainly looking forward to the day when I am - and any kids that we do have will be vaccinated right on schedule, no question about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstach Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 JayB - you seem well informed - i'm curious, what is your occupation? Being a new parent myself, EricB makes a good point - parenthood must activate the 'overprotective to the point of paranoia gene'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstach Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 Okaaaay....but did she get the HPV vaccine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 JayB - you seem well informed - i'm curious, what is your occupation? Being a new parent myself, EricB makes a good point - parenthood must activate the 'overprotective to the point of paranoia gene'. You mean it's not just me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 How long do vaccines work for? 5, 10, 30 years? At what point (if the vaccines work and eliminate the disease from our culture) do we stop giving our children the vaccines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 JayB - you seem well informed - i'm curious, what is your occupation? Being a new parent myself, EricB makes a good point - parenthood must activate the 'overprotective to the point of paranoia gene'. Lab rat in a virology group for another couple of weeks. I can't remember much about immunology other than we have different types of white cells that perform different functions - but the case for the safety and efficacy of vaccination against a certain roster of diseases is so thoroughly established that it just can't be disputed. I'm sure that you're correct in saying that once you have a kid of your own, the way that you look at the world changes quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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