Girl Gone Wild

[minx]

divorce works for some people

so does marriage

 

i used to say that marriage was just a piece of paper

then i got married

now i know it really is just a piece of paper.

Toilet paper.

 

maybe...

 

but its not so much harder to get divorced than it is to break up a long relationship. just extra hassle

[StevenSeagal]

I disagree. Most of my closest friends are women in their 50's. Two are never-married and one is a widow. All are very happy well-adjusted women who have fun, strong personalities and many interests. They love dating men and love being women. They have no more fucked up social pressures than the rest of us. They deal with them well.

Update your view.

 

At least from my experience, your friends would seem to be closer to the exception than the norm. I'm not suggesting marriage is essential to being whole, but whether you believe in it or not, society at large simply treats you differently if you are married vs. single. If you're well adjusted, then it won't affect you either way. Not everyone is so well adjusted.

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

I think people who have difficulty maintaining long term, monogamous relationships, or who have experienced particularly damaging relationships, view marriage with a great deal of skepticism and, in some cases, negativity. Long term monogomous relationships bring the greatest satisfaction for most people, however.

 

Dating positively blows. Anyone who claims to be satisfied with prolonged serial dating is lying to save face.

[tvashtarkatena]

tvash, you need a good lump so take yours w/rumr

 

I get a lump in my throat each time I dream of your supple lips. That's ample lumpage.

[grtmtnchic]

I disagree. Most of my closest friends are women in their 50's. Two are never-married and one is a widow. All are very happy well-adjusted women who have fun, strong personalities and many interests. They love dating men and love being women. They have no more fucked up social pressures than the rest of us. They deal with them well.

Update your view.

 

At least from my experience, your friends would seem to be closer to the exception than the norm. I'm not suggesting marriage is essential to being whole, but whether you believe in it or not, society at large simply treats you differently if you are married vs. single. If you're well adjusted, then it won't affect you either way. Not everyone is so well adjusted.

 

 

I would agree - society is biased towards married people. If one chooses to be single, it's important to either know married people who are well adjusted (ie, not too absorbed in their own marriage that they forget who they are as individuals), or have a good group of friends who are not married.

 

[archenemy]

I think people who have difficulty maintaining long term, monogamous relationships, or who have experienced particularly damaging relationships, view marriage with a great deal of skepticism and, in some cases, negativity. Long term monogomous relationships bring the greatest satisfaction for most people, however.

 

Dating positively blows. Anyone who claims to be satisfied with prolonged serial dating is lying to save face.

Having been in two long term relationships (one of them for 12 years), I feel that I am able to throw my opinion in on the whole long term vs dating pool of opinions.

I find both states satisfying at times and challenging at others. I've had relationships that break up cleanly and others that break my heart. And some shit I get over and other shit changes me as a human being. I am negative some days and other days I am all happy horseshit. Seems normal to me; but then, the insane person never questions their sanity, do they?

[tvashtarkatena]

I disagree. Most of my closest friends are women in their 50's. Two are never-married and one is a widow. All are very happy well-adjusted women who have fun, strong personalities and many interests. They love dating men and love being women. They have no more fucked up social pressures than the rest of us. They deal with them well.

Update your view.

 

At least from my experience, your friends would seem to be closer to the exception than the norm. I'm not suggesting marriage is essential to being whole, but whether you believe in it or not, society at large simply treats you differently if you are married vs. single. If you're well adjusted, then it won't affect you either way. Not everyone is so well adjusted.

 

 

I would agree - society is biased towards married people. If one chooses to be single, it's important to either know married people who are well adjusted (ie, not too absorbed in their own marriage that they forget who they are as individuals), or have a good group of friends who are not married.

 

Not anymore. Over 50% of Washington households are single persons. The stats for the U.S. aren't that far behind. The majority of advertising is for individuals, food portions in stores are individual, condo development has exploded, etc....

 

I would guess that you focus far more on the issue of marriage than married people focus on the issue of being single. This is natural curiosity is understandable, but being married or not is not as big a deal as you make it out to be. Being satisfied in a relationship (or a boy-harem, or whatever you're shooting for) is the thing, and that challenge remains just as daunting whether married or not.

 

I will say one thing I've observed: A lack of monogamy is the number one thing that will lessen one's chances of being satisfied in a relationship.

Edited March 24, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[grtmtnchic]

I think people who have difficulty maintaining long term, monogamous relationships, or who have experienced particularly damaging relationships, view marriage with a great deal of skepticism and, in some cases, negativity. Long term monogomous relationships bring the greatest satisfaction for most people, however.

 

Ouch! I'm all for long-term monogomous relationships, and I've had a few decent ones. I've just recently been screwed over (by someone who I thought I was in a monogomous LTR with) so I'm bitter. And I think marriage is a faulty concept - too defined.

 

Dating positively blows. Anyone who claims to be satisfied with prolonged serial dating is lying to save face.

 

Or just joking about it because it softens the blow of disappointment...

 

[StevenSeagal]

Um...I have no plan nor desire to ever be married. I think it's a bassackwards institution that is set up to fail. I would consider "partnership" but it would have to be in an open fashion. How would one go out of one's way to never be married?

 

That's cool.

 

Just checking to see if you were merely questioning the institution.

 

To answer your last question- you hear a lot of people in their early/mid 20's proclaiming they will never be 'tied down' (married or otherwise)- as though they know the whole course of their life ahead! Moreover, that their individualism is so dominating their life that they don't even realize how much your life changes as you grow older and they only see a relationship as a "restriction on their freedom". Most people grow beyond that and develop a more rational perspective, but once in awhile you meet older people who have never been able to sustain a relationship for long because they've held fast to that individualism to the point that it comes to exist mainly to drive other people away from them. Just don't become one of those people.

 

Marriage itself really is a contrived concept and isn't required to define a good relationship, but unfortunately this society makes things difficult for estate related things, when you do find yourself in full 'partnership' or whatever you wish to call it.

[Recycled]

I almost find myself agreeing with Tvash.

 

It's really sad that so many people have such a negative view of long term relationships. I've been married to the wrong person and was divorced in my 20s. I could have drawn the conclusion that marriage was fundamentally a bad deal, but instead I met someone who is a great life partner and have been married to them since.

 

There are a lot of benefits to having a good marriage, ranging from providing a stable home for raising children to being together with your best friend for the long haul. Our culture is making it harder for people to accept the compromises that make good marriages work, but I'm not so sure the alternative is going to lead to greater happiness when people look back over their lives at the end.

 

I think the main point is that can work really well and there's no reason to damn the instutution just because some people get married to the wrong people, for the wrong reasons or have a problem with long term relationships.

 

Contrary to Arch, I know a number of single women (and men) that are quite unhappy about not being in a long term relationship, particularly when they have hard times and not a lot of emotional support that they would get from a good partnership/marriage. They seem to cope and tell themselves that they are having a lot of fun with their "freedom," but I'm skeptical.

 

[tvashtarkatena]

I think people who have difficulty maintaining long term, monogamous relationships, or who have experienced particularly damaging relationships, view marriage with a great deal of skepticism and, in some cases, negativity. Long term monogomous relationships bring the greatest satisfaction for most people, however.

 

Dating positively blows. Anyone who claims to be satisfied with prolonged serial dating is lying to save face.

Having been in two long term relationships (one of them for 12 years), I feel that I am able to throw my opinion in on the whole long term vs dating pool of opinions.

I find both states satisfying at times and challenging at others. I've had relationships that break up cleanly and others that break my heart. And some shit I get over and other shit changes me as a human being. I am negative some days and other days I am all happy horseshit. Seems normal to me; but then, the insane person never questions their sanity, do they?

 

Wow...you and RuMR seem very defensive.

[archenemy]

I almost find myself agreeing with Tvash.

 

It's really sad that so many people have such a negative view of long term relationships. I've been married to the wrong person and was divorced in my 20s. I could have drawn the conclusion that marriage was fundamentally a bad deal, but instead I met someone who is a great life partner and have been married to them since.

 

There are a lot of benefits to having a good marriage, ranging from providing a stable home for raising children to being together with your best friend for the long haul. Our culture is making it harder for people to accept the compromises that make good marriages work, but I'm not so sure the alternative is going to lead to greater happiness when people look back over their lives at the end.

 

I think the main point is that can work really well and there's no reason to damn the instutution just because some people get married to the wrong people, for the wrong reasons or have a problem with long term relationships.

 

Contrary to Arch, I know a number of single women (and men) that are quite unhappy about not being in a long term relationship, particularly when they have hard times and not a lot of emotional support that they would get from a good partnership/marriage. They seem to cope and tell themselves that they are having a lot of fun with their "freedom," but I'm skeptical.

I think this is well written and I agree with what you say. And your observation of some unhappy single people is not contrary to my observations--it is only in addition to it.

[tvashtarkatena]

I almost find myself agreeing with Tvash.

 

Sounds like you completely agree with me, probably because you're my little bitch. Now get on down the the corner liquor store and get me some fuckin cigarettes.

[archenemy]

I think people who have difficulty maintaining long term, monogamous relationships, or who have experienced particularly damaging relationships, view marriage with a great deal of skepticism and, in some cases, negativity. Long term monogomous relationships bring the greatest satisfaction for most people, however.

 

Dating positively blows. Anyone who claims to be satisfied with prolonged serial dating is lying to save face.

Having been in two long term relationships (one of them for 12 years), I feel that I am able to throw my opinion in on the whole long term vs dating pool of opinions.

I find both states satisfying at times and challenging at others. I've had relationships that break up cleanly and others that break my heart. And some shit I get over and other shit changes me as a human being. I am negative some days and other days I am all happy horseshit. Seems normal to me; but then, the insane person never questions their sanity, do they?

 

Wow...you and RuMR seem very defensive.

Explaining that I've felt both sides of the equation comes across as defensive to you? How very strange.

[tvashtarkatena]

Don't get me wrong. I'll fuck anything that can't run faster than me, which, unfortunately, isn't many things.

[tvashtarkatena]

Explaining that I've felt both sides of the equation comes across as defensive to you? How very strange.

 

What's strange is how defensive this statement is. Very strange. And defensive.

[archenemy]

Maybe what you need is a Mirdle.

[grtmtnchic]

Most people grow beyond that and develop a more rational perspective, but once in awhile you meet older people who have never been able to sustain a relationship for long because they've held fast to that individualism to the point that it comes to exist mainly to drive other people away from them. Just don't become one of those people.

 

You make a good point. Mostly on this thread I've been joking around - a little truth, a little just for fun. In all honesty, I'm a hopeless romantic who hopes to find a partner for life. It just hasn't worked out that way yet and I keep getting my heart broken, but being a hopeless romantic, I keep trying.

Edited March 26, 2008 by grtmtnchic

[tvashtarkatena]

Don't try to cover up your defensiveness with offense. We all know where you vulnerabilities lie...lay...ly...whatever.

[minx]

i like the idea of long term relationships. i actually think its harder to stay in a relationship that doesn't involve marriage than it does to stay married. its a choice every day. either party can leave anytime w/o out much fuss.

 

i didn't find that getting married helped the committment in my relationship at all. its just a piece of paper. maybe i naively thought it would. the only difference is that there are more hoops to jump through if you end it.

 

 

[archenemy]

Most people grow beyond that and develop a more rational perspective, but once in awhile you meet older people who have never been able to sustain a relationship for long because they've held fast to that individualism to the point that it comes to exist mainly to drive other people away from them. Just don't become one of those people.

 

You make a good point. Mostly on this thread I've been joking around - a little truth, a little just for fun. In all honesty, I'm a hopeless romantic who hopes to find a partner for life. It just hasn't worked out that way yet and I keep getting my heart broken by guys who don't want to be monogamous, but being a hopeless romantic, I keep trying. I've been told I'm a bit intense in my individualism, which intimidates a lot of guys, but I'm also really good at sustaining quality, enduring friendships with people of both sexes, so I know a good partnership will turn up eventually. Jeez...how did this turn into a therapy session! New thread!

Marriage does not make a man monogamous.

[tvashtarkatena]

i like the idea of long term relationships. i actually think its harder to stay in a relationship that doesn't involve marriage than it does to stay married. its a choice every day. either party can leave anytime w/o out much fuss.

 

i didn't find that getting married helped the committment in my relationship at all. its just a piece of paper. maybe i naively thought it would. the only difference is that there are more hoops to jump through if you end it.

 

 

Marriage is a choice every day. No difference. It's so funny that you would think that there is. Very defensive.

[minx]

so true!

[archenemy]

i like the idea of long term relationships. i actually think its harder to stay in a relationship that doesn't involve marriage than it does to stay married. its a choice every day. either party can leave anytime w/o out much fuss.

 

i didn't find that getting married helped the committment in my relationship at all. its just a piece of paper. maybe i naively thought it would. the only difference is that there are more hoops to jump through if you end it.

 

I found that marriage very much impacted my committment. I felt wholly different in that relationship than in any other. I just wish I could find a man who felt the same way. But then, I could wish in one hand and shit in the other and watch which one fills up first.

[minx]

i like the idea of long term relationships. i actually think its harder to stay in a relationship that doesn't involve marriage than it does to stay married. its a choice every day. either party can leave anytime w/o out much fuss.

 

i didn't find that getting married helped the committment in my relationship at all. its just a piece of paper. maybe i naively thought it would. the only difference is that there are more hoops to jump through if you end it.

 

 

Marriage is a choice every day. No difference. It's so funny that you would think that there is. Very defensive.

 

not defensive at all. very open and honest. i don't think so anymore. if marriage tought me nothing else, it was that.