Driving Pickets

[Bug]

No.

That's what is so scary about all this.

[Alex]

But, he's a bug?

[Maine-iac]

So i have a question.... On a two person team, my buddy falls in the hole, and i am in self arrest. The snow is hard enough to hold a picket (standard MSR picket, not a stick, or sticks), or at least hold the picket long enough (and safe enough) until i can get a backup in place. Me and my partner have tied in at the end of the rope, and then coiled the rope back on ourselves until we were at an adequate distance apart. We then tied butterfly knots in the rope, and clipped into that. So still in self arrest position, i use my god like forces and get the picket into the snow. How do i transfer my buddy onto the picket? Do i try and take one of my prusiks (sp?) which would be tied onto the rope, and try tying a munter with a backup knot, and then loading that prusik? Then build my hauling system with the coiled rope that is around me.

 

[Alex]

"How do i transfer my buddy onto the picket? "

 

You need to read Glacier Travel and Crevasse Rescue by Andy Selters. Escaping the load of a teammate in a hole is one reason to set up your glacier travel rig the correct way, not just any old way.

[tvashtarkatena]

No.

That's what is so scary about all this.

 

You scare easily.

 

What Alex said. Great resource on the subject. In any case, spend as many days as you need to perfect every aspect of crevasse rescue; it's well worth it.

[Bug]

No.

That's what is so scary about all this.

 

You scare easily.

 

What Alex said. Great resource on the subject. In any case, spend as many days as you need to perfect every aspect of crevasse rescue; it's well worth it.

Ditto on Alex. There are way too many ways to screw up an eamil or post trying to explain something on the fly.

 

Tv, I too use "natural" supplements to my rack and tools.

As was stated earlier, many of those techniques or substitutes might not be appropriate for a newbies forum. Just an opnion, and I do respect yours.

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

"How do i transfer my buddy onto the picket? "

 

You need to read Glacier Travel and Crevasse Rescue by Andy Selters. Escaping the load of a teammate in a hole is one reason to set up your glacier travel rig the correct way, not just any old way.

 

and practice makes perfect. i have to go through the whole setup every year. there's so many details, it's easy to forget, and you want this to be automatic when you actually need to use it.

 

[doumall]

Thanks for the info all! That snow anchor article was well worth the read. More questions:

 

As a two man rope team assuming no help from other parties, would you carry 4 pulleys each for a 5:1 mechanical advantage?

 

With a 30m rope using Kiwi coils, would you have each climber carry an additional rescue line? What diameter and length?

 

Answering my own questions here for the next newbie stumbling by:

 

-3 pulleys can yield 6:1 advantage with a CxZ system, an acceptable advantage for pulling your buddy out alone assuming the rope isn’t badly entrenched in the lip.

 

-to use a 6:1 system with a C at the victim and Z at the anchor, an additional 10 m of line is required when using a 10m kiwi, 10m spacing, 10m kiwi 2 person rope setup. A C at the victim is useful as the victim can assist with the hauling. A 6x1 system can be set up without a C at the victim by combination of Z and C at the anchor, so the addition rescue line is not imperative to get the 6x1 advantage. For rappelling down to an unconscious victim, hauling a pack up or using a secondary rescue line the additional 10 m rescue line is essential. Hey look, I can read!

 

I have talked with people who guide in the NW who would two person travel with a 30 m rope, one pulley and only one picket each. Obviously it’s a matter of acceptable risk. For my first time on a heavily crevassed glacier route, I will carry three pulleys, one axe and two pickets each. Speed shouldn’t be an issue for me, I usually carry more weight at 14k anyway ;@ ha, newbie rant!

 

Edited February 22, 2008 by doumall

[JohnGo]

A vastly better book (IMHO) on crevasse rescue and general snow/glacier climbing is the "cartoon" version:

Glacier Mountaineering: An Illustrated Guide to Glacier Travel and Crevasse Rescue, by Andy Tyson, with drawings / hilarious cartoons by Mike Clelland. It was published by Climbing magazine, so it may be sorta hard to find (try their web site, or call them), but well worth looking for. A superb reference and a fun read!

[crmlla2007]

Glacier Travel and Crevasse Rescue, by Andy Tyson, with drawings / hilarious cartoons by Mike Clelland. It was published by Climbing magazine, so it may be sorta hard to find (try their web site, or call them), but well worth looking for. A superb reference and a fun read!

 

Cheapest I've found is $180 on Amazon

 

Maybe now would be a good time for a next edition.

 

Anyone have a scanner?

[Kit]

Perhaps this is the book, looks to be currently available from Climbing Mag.

 

https://www.e2e-store.com/climbing/climbing-product.cgi?product_id=33

[crmlla2007]

The cover pic on amazon and the dozen or so other places I've seen it is totally different - wonder if this is the 2nd edition of the same book?

 

 

vs.

 

 

But if it is the same book with a different cover, < $20 sounds good.