avalance schools

[Dave C]

I am looking at taking an avalance level 1 school in winter 09 and wanted to get some helpful insight from people who have taken, or would recommend a certain one. Price and place don't matter, I just want to find a good school to learn more. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Jonathan_S]

Two resources for finding course providers who adhere to some sort of standardized national curriculum include:

 

1. AIARE:

http://www.avtraining-admin.org/courseprov.cfm

http://avtraining.org/Avalanche-Training-Courses/AIARE-Qualified-Instructors.html

 

2. NSP:

http://www.nsp.org/nsp2002/edu_template.asp?mode=course_schedule

[choose Level 1 Avalanche from pull-down menu]

[Dave C]

Thanks for the great links!

[kweb]

http://www.mountainsavvy.com/index.html

 

I took the above class a few years back. Glenn was full of knowledge and made it a point for everyone to learn what he was teaching.

Looks like its all booked this time around though.....

[Tennessee]

In my opinion AIARE courses seem to offer the most cutting edge instructor training and constantly updated and scrutinized curriculum and teaching methods. There's lots of AIARE providers in the PNW - American Alpine Institute (Baker area), Mountain Madness (Stevens Pass), and Pro Guiding (Snoqualmie).

 

Take the course nearest to the area(s) you plan to be skiing so you get an understanding of the particulars of the snowpack and terrain you will be most likely be using.

 

Look at the number of days (particularly field days), student to instructor ratio, professional training of the instructors, where the field days are held, and whether the curriculum is nationally or internationally standardized.

[cheamclimber]

avalances are very scary, I saw a big avalance come off of cheam the other day actually! I'm planing an taking an avalance course too so I found this avalance thread about avalance courses very helpful!

[Squall]

It would be wise to stay out of the way of the avalanche... Some scary shit

 

 

 

 

 

 

__________________________

Any new rock climbing techniques?? Share Share

 

[sobo]

Thanks for that tidbit of knowledge there, Captain Obvious...

 

Now to the matter at hand...

 

Dave C-

The National Ski Patrol is also a resource to look in to. They provide Avalanche 1 and 2 training seminars. Avy 1 is a full weekend course (one day classroom, one day slopes). You come out with a good understanding of causes, how to assess, what to avoid, etc.

 

The AIARE courses are some top-notch $eminar$. The NSP course are sufficient, and probably cheaper and easier to find an opening locally to fit your schedule. YMMV.

[fredrogers]

I am looking at taking an avalance level 1 school in winter 09 and wanted to get some helpful insight from people who have taken, or would recommend a certain one. Price and place don't matter, I just want to find a good school to learn more. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

I took both Level 1 and Level 2 Courses from Larry Goldie at North Cascade Mountain Guides here in Mazama this winter. I highly recommend both courses (and Larry). Both offer time in the field- 1 day with level 1 and 4 days with the level 2 course (taught at the North Cascade Heli Skiing Yurt up by Hart's Pass). Why not combine 4 days of avvy 2 with an amazing setting and some great skiing (or split-boarding) and a heli ride. I'll post some pics later- I'm still buzzing from my time up there last weekend.

[cheamclimber]

look out! the avalance warning for the North Shore is 'Extreme' for this weekend..

[Hugh Conway]

There are a number of good local providers available depending on where you are that ofter advantages over AIARE (PADI on ICE!) or NSP (highly variable instructional quality). Not that either of those are bad, they just don't necessarily offer any advantages over other sources and get fucking real, top notch? AIARE has the same curriculum across the US.

 

If you specify where you are you'd get more useful advice.

[chris]

...get fucking real, top notch? AIARE has the same curriculum across the US.

Actually, I see that as an advantage - I've gotten to take AIARE courses in Jackson Hole, Bishop, Bellingham, Alpental, and June Lake. Instructors know what to expect from students in Level II and III courses, and students know what to expect from instructors. While there is a uniform curriculum, it allows for enough variation that instructors can tailor it to their local area. I've also taken three other avie courses from non-AIARE providers, and the professionalism of the instructors and the curriculum has been consistently better in the AIARE courses.

 

Disclaimer: I'm an AIARE Level I instructor

[Hugh Conway]

I've never taken an AIARE course but they had no problem taking my money to register so I'm not sure what your point is.

 

I think it's silly to say the students are coming from the same background when you have courses offered in Washington, California, Utah, Colorado, New Hampshire and France and the course is so short. Seriously - expecting to find layers in a typical WA snowpack? Got a backhoe? Expecting to find anything but ice in NH?

[sobo]

chris,

You must understand that Hugh knows fucking everything.

Let me reiterate: fucking everything.

 

Hugh, you ever climb in NH? Hint: I have, and it ain't always ice, even in prime ice climbing season. So "get fucking real" your own damn self, to borrow a phrase.

[Hugh Conway]

Hugh, you ever climb in NH?

 

Yes and NY & VT My point was the conditions are dramatically different between the regions

 

I know enough to know I don't know everything, and that anyone who thinks 2 days is enough isn't worth admitting to the conversation

 

I guess I need to be a guide or on SAR to know everything

[sobo]

Firstly, no one's arguing that conditions do not vary between regions.

Secondly, no one's arguing that 2 days is sufficient for avalanche training.

Thirdly, no one's arguing that you need to be a guide or in SAR. In fact, those positions are probably better filled by others than yourself, given your attitude represented in other threads upon this board. I'm just sayin'...

 

have a nice day. :wave: :wave:

[Hugh Conway]

In fact, those positions are probably better filled by others than yourself

 

Thanks for the complement!

 

My argument was that the standardized curriculums don't any benefit over the non-standards and that there are good and bad providers on both sides to give good advice information on location is very useful.

[sobo]

Again, no one is arguing that.

 

I'm moving our discussion to the PM section. No one else wants to read this, and we've both stopped contributing anything meaningful to to this thread a while ago. It's all just our opinions now.

[Hugh Conway]

Again, no one is arguing that.

 

If you are arguing that NSP & AIARE are better you are arguing just that.

 

Your know-it-all blustery insult of calling someone a know-it-all is gleefully ironic.

[sobo]

HC, it's your attitude that pisses me off. You scoff at everything, in every post. No one's ever right but you. It becomes weary after a while. Go back and read my very first post on this thread. I mean read it. Is there any reason to take any issue whatsoever with what I posted? Did I say that my information was the be-all, end-all of where to acquire avalanche awareness skills? Did I allow for no other venue or source? Nope, didn't think so.

 

You sure you don't want to leave this in the PMs?

[Hugh Conway]

Pointing out what things are wrong doesn't mean that something is right.

[chris]

Hugh,

 

Skills used to evaluate and make decisions in avalanche science are consistent regardless of geography. An avalanche forecaster, guide, or recreational skier in Vermont, Colorado, Utah, and Washington all use the same skill sets, tests, and techniques to determine snowpack stability and hazard.

 

I think the advantage of AIARE course are the consistency in what material is presented and how it is presented. Someone can take a Level I course in Washington, then take a Level II course from a completely different provider (even in the same area), and the new instructor know precisely what the student was taught in their Level I course. This minimizes repeating basic material, and makes the most efficient use of the students' time.

 

I also believe that AIARE provides more structure than AAA-standard courses, another advantage in my opinion. NSP courses seem to lack sufficient time in the field to teach application of the skills they present. So I personally believe that AIARE courses offer the superior product in the market right now.

 

I encourage everyone interested in what makes AIARE unique to look at their website, www.avtraining.org, and read about how AIARE was starting on the "About Us" page.

 

Anyone interested in speaking to me more about AIARE courses are welcome to send me a PM, or post a question here.

 

Chris

[Hugh Conway]

I think the advantage of AIARE course are the consistency in what material is presented and how it is presented.

 

I fail to see how that is possible given the dramatically different locations the courses are presented in and even different times at the same location. If there are no layers in the snowpack it's hard to get much good field feedback on evaluating layers in the snowpack. Since in my opinion the major benefit of a class is feedback in the field from someone with more knowledge than yourself this variability makes comparisons between courses problematic.

 

Classroom material etc. can be done most anywhere - there may be an advantage to an oral learner doing it inside, but thats individual dependant.

 

If this material is so independant of time and space - why do you even need to take a class, unless that is your preferred learning method? Couldn't you just create an exam process for feedback?

 

Skills used to evaluate and make decisions in avalanche science are consistent regardless of geography.

 

No shit? I thought avalanches flowed uphill in the Southern Hemisphere.

 

If you are interested in waving your dick around oh great Mountain Guide! this is a fine thread - because you and sobo's bandstand lecturing is fucking funny. If you want to help others - don't aim your lectures at me, who you've never met, and quite obviously don't know much about.

[sobo]

...horses to water...

[Hugh Conway]

...horses to water...

 

do you have any point besides waving your dick around?