kevbone Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Trail to Eric's rap = about 20m Rap to first anchor = about 25m Rap to Big Ledge = about 40-45m So about 85-90m... That’s a lot of rapping. You can rap off a specific tree where Dods comes up. One rap with two ropes gets you to Big Ledge……One rap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Just a note for folks who may be new to the area. Climbing on Beacon Rock's South and West faces is now closed until July 15th for the Peregrines. The Northwest face (by the road and around to the tourist trail) is still open. While July 15th is the official date to reopen, monitoring the Peregrines in cooperation with the WDFW will resume at the end of the month and could possibly provide another early open in 2008 depending on how things go for the resident breeding pair out at Beacon. Please respect the closure as it causes considerable problems and could easily rollback the progress made in recent years in working with the WDFW and WSP relative to opening earlier than July 15th if the monitoring observations provide for it. From now until Beacon does reopen is when Ozone really shines as a great resource for PDX climbers. Make good use of it, Trout Creek, and Smith this spring and Beacon will be open again before you know it... Thanks for the heads up. By the way, I saw a Peregrine in the parking lot next to my office the other day. Cool bird. I've recently learned a little more about their habits and a guy from the Audubon Society convinced me that the fact that they nest in urban Seattle, or even that they could get used to hikers on a nearby hiking trail, does not mean they won't be spooked or even mortally stressed by rock climbers. It is all situation dependent and it could be the case that the closure at Beacon is broader than it needs to be but there is no easy way to know. Good luck with the monitoring, Joseph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Shit, Joe, half of NC is closed by that measure. I remember cutting my teeth on NC granite at Whitesides, "the Gorge", and Looking Glass. About the only rock open by that posting is Stone Mountain, unless the State Parks people have done that one in by now. They were always threatening to close SM down to climbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Just a note for folks who may be new to the area. Climbing on Beacon Rock's South and West faces is now closed until July 15th for the Peregrines. The Northwest face (by the road and around to the tourist trail) is still open. While July 15th is the official date to reopen, monitoring the Peregrines in cooperation with the WDFW will resume at the end of the month and could possibly provide another early open in 2008 depending on how things go for the resident breeding pair out at Beacon. Please respect the closure as it causes considerable problems and could easily rollback the progress made in recent years in working with the WDFW and WSP relative to opening earlier than July 15th if the monitoring observations provide for it. From now until Beacon does reopen is when Ozone really shines as a great resource for PDX climbers. Make good use of it, Trout Creek, and Smith this spring and Beacon will be open again before you know it... Thanks for the heads up. By the way, I saw a Peregrine in the parking lot next to my office the other day. Cool bird. I've recently learned a little more about their habits and a guy from the Audubon Society convinced me that the fact that they nest in urban Seattle, or even that they could get used to hikers on a nearby hiking trail, does not mean they won't be spooked or even mortally stressed by rock climbers. It is all situation dependent and it could be the case that the closure at Beacon is broader than it needs to be but there is no easy way to know. Good luck with the monitoring, Joseph. the falcons don't become stressed when they are used to the climbers, they get pissed when you get to close to their nest and they will crack their own eggs because the use of ddt has made their eggs weak. " *DDT was originally created in 1873. Only when its use as an insecticide was discovered in 1939, however, did it come into widespread use. The scientist who made this discovery was awarded the Nobel Prize in 1948. After World War II, it became especially popular due to its effectiveness against mosquitoes that spread malaria and lice that carried typhus. The World Health Organization estimated that 25 million lives were saved because of its use. Problems soon surfaced, however, as many insects began to develop resistance to the insecticide. It was also discovered to be highly toxic to fish. Because it does not break down easily, DDT builds up in the fatty tissues. Animals that ingest it, carry it for some time. It takes an animal eight years to metabolize one half of the DDT it consumes. Birds, like the bald eagle, ingested DDT after eating contaminated fish. The DDT caused the bird's egg shells to be brittle and thin and to break easily. Eggs often were broken in the nest when the parents sat on them during incubation. This was one of the reasons populations declined to dangerous levels. DDT was banned in the United States in 1973, although it is still used in other parts of the world. Birds that migrate to other continents are still at risk." primary source: University of Oxford, Department of Chemistry i like the part how the guy was awarded the noble peace prize for discoverd the use for this shit. fucking scientist matt, i climbed around these falcons for years at beacon before they found out they were there. the birds used to fly up and sit 10 feet away from me and just check me out. they like any other animal including humans get freaked when you get near their young. if human activity really stressed them out mortally they wouldn't build their nest underneath busy bridges with only a few feet separating them from heavy traffic. the audabon society would love to replace your activity with theirs, a bunch of blue haired bird watchers waiting to croak. all of beacon rock should be shut down just not the south face. one day me and my partner rapped down to the ledge where they nest and i threw down some rocks from the hiking trail . the rocks landed in and around the nest, but yet the trail still remains open. why? well because beacon rock state park wouldn't be much of a state park if that trail was closed. it's all about government validated positions, IMHO. Edited February 5, 2008 by pink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 matt, i climbed around these falcons for years at beacon before they found out they were there. the birds used to fly up and sit 10 feet away from me and just check me out. they like any other animal including humans get freaked when you get near their young. if human activity really stressed them out mortally they wouldn't build their nest underneath busy bridges with only a few feet separating them from heavy traffic. the audabon society would love to replace your activity with theirs, a bunch of blue haired bird watchers waiting to croak. all of beacon rock should be shut down just not the south face. one day me and my partner rapped down to the ledge where they nest and i threw down some rocks from the hiking trail . the rocks landed in and around the nest, but yet the trail still remains open. why? well because beacon rock state park wouldn't be much of a state park if that trail was closed. it's all about government validated positions, IMHO. It is not that simple, Mr. Pink. As I said, you could be right that the closure at Beacon may in fact be broader than necessary, and I suppose it may not be necessary at all. The Audubon guy said every case is different and in every case it is hard to know just what the birds can tolerate except by seeing in hindsight where they are disrupted and nesting fails. I'm willing to bet, though, that the head ranger at Beacon Rock hasn't decided to impose a closure just for the hell of it: I think he's trying to do his job and he actually puts a lot of work into managing Beacon specifically so that we CAN climb there. It may well be the case that the birds can tolerate the hiker traffic but are more disturbed by climbers. All in all, I bet you'll be on the losing side of the argument if you argue that at least some restriction in climbing activity during the nesting season is not warranted. The Audubon Society guy offered the story of an active nest on a bridge in Portland where the parents became highly alarmed by the addition of a small 6 foot long scaffold near but out of sight from their nest. I believe him when he said that the nest would have failed had it not been removed. The nest was built on a busy bridge, and daily traffic did not bother the birds. A change in the use pattern near their nest during the crucial part of the nesting season WAS a real threat. I agree that the Audubon Society may not be working to actively promote our interests. The same could be said about many other groups like, for example, the historical enthusiasts celebrating the old wagon train days at City of Rocks or some of the more strident conservation groups who might like to see a wide variety of recreational use more tightly restricted, but we have to figure out how to work with them. I don't think the Audubon Society or most of these other groups have a specific idea that they dislike rock climbing so much as they are simply doing what they do. They are kind of like us in that respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 mr. matt, i'm a big fan of the rangers at beacon and if you take notice, i spoke nothing of the rangers and don't think they closed the rock to begin with. the rangers just enforce the rules the last time i checked. also, i was the one who stated that yes the falcons get pissed when you get near their young, but so do a lot of animals. you just said that the birds get spooked in general and i thought i might add to that by saying i have had different experiences being every situation is different, and i am pretty cued in on the situation at beacon being i used to climb the rock a couple hundred times a year and i'm being modest when i say that. i don't think the audabon society has it in for climbers, but the boat dock offers some pretty easy viewing of beacon rock. hell i should be a gold member of the audabon society with the glimpses i have been privileged to. btw, i don't disagree with the closure at this point. i disagree with the trail being open being it passes right above the nest and you can throw debris down into it. it's just more inconsistent government bullshit that sad to say i becoming tolerant to. and matt would you believe that climbing used to be a use pattern out at beacon before they found out the birds were there. the birds had been there for about eight years before the biologist ever got wind of it. i climbed there two/three seasons with the birds and they didn't seem to mind. just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 they didn't seem to mind. They still dont mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 As I understand it, they cannot close the trail. When the former private property owner deeded Beacon Rock to the State he specified that they could not close the trail. I've never climbed at Beacon and I don't have any basis to disagree with your statement that the birds seemed to get along with climbers OK in the past. I'm simply suggesting that complaining about "inconsistent government bullshit" or railing on the blue haired Audubon members who are about to croak anyway may not further our cause. Those folks will read your posts and conclude that there is at least one rock climber they will probably never be able to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Every one can believe what they want about the bird closure……I believe without a doubt that climbers are the scape goats. I also know there is not a damn thing we can do about it except bitch about it online. I know all nestings have to be looked at differently, but what goes on at Beacon is total bull…..oh well. Pink is right on the money about this…….once again….we are just venting are frustration to not being about to ROCK climb at beacon, yet we can CLIMB the hikers trail to the summit along with 1000 other people. Total bullshit. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Ranting on line is certainly part of cc.com's mission. Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 As I understand it, they cannot close the trail. When the former private property owner deeded Beacon Rock to the State he specified that they could not close the trail. As I understand it the president of the USA cannot shred the constitution either….yet he does daily. If they wanted to close the trail. They would. They just closed it a couple of weeks for repair….what is the difference? I've never climbed at Beacon and I don't have any basis to disagree with your statement that the birds seemed to get along with climbers OK in the past. I'm simply suggesting that complaining about "inconsistent government bullshit" or railing on the blue haired Audubon members who are about to croak anyway may not further our cause. So true but…… Those folks will read your posts and conclude that there is at least one rock climber they will probably never be able to work with. I hope they read these posts. Then they might get it through there heads what insensitive people they are being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 As I understand it, they cannot close the trail. When the former private property owner deeded Beacon Rock to the State he specified that they could not close the trail. I've never climbed at Beacon and I don't have any basis to disagree with your statement that the birds seemed to get along with climbers OK in the past. I'm simply suggesting that complaining about "inconsistent government bullshit" or railing on the blue haired Audubon members who are about to croak anyway may not further our cause. Those folks will read your posts and conclude that there is at least one rock climber they will probably never be able to work with. matt, i don't disagree with the closure. it's not a matter of working with the climbers. it is a matter of fact. i love birds/nature i'm a frickin trad climber FFS. to bad the climbs are considered to be part of that original deed. hey matt, do you know the name of the private owner who deeded the property to the state and know if any family members could be contacted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 As I understand it the president of the USA cannot shred the constitution either….yet he does daily. If they wanted to close the trail. They would. They just closed it a couple of weeks for repair….what is the difference? The difference COULD have something to do with the fact that the State Parks wants to and probably should encourage people to donate valuable and scenic properties like this for public use. You are certainly right that they probably COULD impose a closure but wouldn't this suggest to other future potential donors that any requirements they might put on property they are giving to the State are subject to being disregarded? As to the cocksucker part, my guess is that a ranger or Audubon Society member reading this discussion is not going to conclude it is THEY who are the cocksuckers. The information about how the falcons can tolerate climbing activity is probably not what they get as a "take away" lesson here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 As to the cocksucker part Just me venting out my uneducated ass. Nothing personal to the rangers or Audubon folks out there. It is a total catch 22 with the closures. Close the rock to the 1% of the users and leave it open to the 99% users and that is suppose to ensure the birds will have a successful breading season. Does not make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 well maybe there is some clause about closing the rock period. climbers are a user group just like hikers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 i'd like to see a copy of that agreement. i wonder if it is public domain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 i wonder if it is public domain? If it is tied into a state park, I would think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 If there is actually a clause written into the Deed, as I understand that there is, it would certainly be a part of the "public domain." I would guess that any such condition relating to the transfer is public information whether it is on the Deed or not, but getting a copy of it might be difficult for any number of reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 what's the name of the guy who used to own it? i want a copy for my office wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 On their website it says this: Henry J. Biddle purchased the rock in order to build a trail to the top. The trail was built, and in 1935 his heirs turned the rock over to the state for use as a park. Additional development was done by the Civilian Conservation Corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 thanks mattp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Just me venting out my uneducated ass. Nothing personal to the rangers or Audubon cocksuckers out there. How is calling someone a cocksucker not a personal thing? Personally, I think the rangers do a pretty good job of balancing the different interests. Close the rock to the 1% of the users and leave it open to the 99% users and that is suppose to ensure the birds will have a successful breading season. Does not make sense. It does when you consider that it was a climber who tore off the nest and threw it down the rock. Granted, this occurred after they started the closure and it was several years ago, but it did nothing to strengthen our case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Just me venting out my uneducated ass. Nothing personal to the rangers or Audubon folksout there. It was a joke. I take it you did not think it was funny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Just me venting out my uneducated ass. Nothing personal to the rangers or Audubon cocksuckers out there. How is calling someone a cocksucker not a personal thing? Personally, I think the rangers do a pretty good job of balancing the different interests. Close the rock to the 1% of the users and leave it open to the 99% users and that is suppose to ensure the birds will have a successful breading season. Does not make sense. It does when you consider that it was a climber who tore off the nest and threw it down the rock. Granted, this occurred after they started the closure and it was several years ago, but it did nothing to strengthen our case. i don't think kevin was speaking of the rangers. rbw if anything has caused the nest to fail it would be the great horned owl that also lives on beacon rock. back in '95,'96 was one season i know the nest failed i saw that owl out there on numerous occasions monitoring the birds and climbing after the rock was opened. the falcon has two enemies, eagles and falcons and there are both of those out there. the owl sleeps down behind the column at "beacon towers" which is right where borderline starts. rbw, where did you get this information about a climber throwing a nest of the ledge? can you produce the name of the climber, and do you have a witness to this occurrence? as far as i know there never was a "nest" that the bird had built. falcons are notorious for choosing ledges with bowl like features so the eggs don't roll out. the nest is a scrape or depression dug in gravel on a cliff ledge. they will lay eggs right onto the hard rock which is proly why the weak egg shells were cracking so easily under the weight of their bodies. i would like for you to pm me and tell me who told you this information and who you heard the climbers was. it sounds like someone is making this stuff up being i was first person to visit the nesting site after the initial closure and there was no traditional bird nest. were not dealing with robins here these are not traditional birds. and no i didn't throw any nest of a ledge. in fact the birds were laying there eggs right on broken glass that was proly thrown down by hikers from above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 c'mon pink, are you telling me you climbed at beacon and never heard about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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