sexual_chocolate Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 So my question is this, isn't it considered correct to stay off someone's route until they free it. Yes. No. Not if they have been sitting on it for over 6 months without even trying it. No, not if they have been trying it for over a year and are still not close. A year seems the limit regardless, although i'd say 6 mo's. good lord, i can't believe i'm still writing in this damn thread. i don't think my life is ever going to be affected by any of these considerations, since if i find a route that's been sitting for a long time, i'll get on it, and if i bolt a line and someone snakes it, i don't give a flying fuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 i don't give a flying fuck. If that were true, you would have stopped posting a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_chocolate Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 i did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 i did. you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Lately it occurred to me that I should try to get a route into the next Squamish guide. Over 6 or more years I spent a few days cleaning it, talked to a subcontractor about bolting it, worked it out on TR, and left it at that. Now it has been properly bolted and led by George from Climb On and Joe Turley and a guy from California. I would have liked the extra credit of the first lead ascent, but it will be fine if, when it gets into print, there is a note that says, "initial cleaning and TR ascent" by me. If it ever gets into print. Not that thing off Broadway with the bolt at the start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 i don't give a flying fuck. Bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 but it will be fine if, when it gets into print, there is a note that says, "initial cleaning and TR ascent" by me. If it ever gets into print. If you were the person who climbed it first regardless if it was on TR or not…..you should be given the FA credit. Who ever led it without falling should get the FFA credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairns Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 So my question is this, isn't it considered correct to stay off someone's route until they free it. Yes. [but the consensus ends there.] No. Not if they have been sitting on it for over 6 months without even trying it. It would still be considered correct to stay away, though "until they free it" would be correctness for correctness' sake and not a standard an actual climber should be held to. I thought that by saying the consensus ended there (at the notion of correct) an actual human would not be troubled by lack of logical rigour. Especially someone who doesn't agree with himself. No, not if they have been trying it for over a year and are still not close. A year seems the limit regardless, although i'd say 6 mo's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairns Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Lately it occurred to me that I should try to get a route into the next Squamish guide. Over 6 or more years I spent a few days cleaning it, talked to a subcontractor about bolting it, worked it out on TR, and left it at that. Now it has been properly bolted and led by George from Climb On and Joe Turley and a guy from California. I would have liked the extra credit of the first lead ascent, but it will be fine if, when it gets into print, there is a note that says, "initial cleaning and TR ascent" by me. If it ever gets into print. Not that thing off Broadway with the bolt at the start? No. Thanks for passing that one along to KM. I had first tried to lead that and except for some greenery in the last section of crack it was clearly doable. I think it was sometime after '92 that I then TR'd it after rapping into the frog pond. Certainly other people had and have done the same. The bolt at the start, for example. The note Kevin put in the guide could be misleading as it mentions 2 pa which could refer to Afterthought. The frog pond route has no aid. The newer route follows a dike on Campground Wall. It intersects the left side of Feelin' Groovy. The upper section of dike had been noticed even by me, but a friend had to point out that it probably went down, too. The upper section needs gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 So my question is this, isn't it considered correct to stay off someone's route until they free it. It takes a lot of work to clean a route out here in the PNW. That is unless they take years to lead it or leave it for good? Recently someone told me to go and free a route that his friend had scrubbed the week before. I thought that was pretty rude and sure to cause bad feelings in a small community with very few climbers. This guy seems to be a bit of a glory hound always out for himself anyways..... I am not sure if I would say it is correct, but I would say it is considerate to stay off of a known project. Really though, as far as I am concerned, if the was a route and I knew it was a project and I could climb it and felt like climbing it because it looked like a good line, I am not going to wait around for someone to tell when I can climb it. At the same time I wouldn't spray about it and give away all the beta to so that the person who did put the effort into cleaning it can still have the first ascent. I would expect the same from others as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Wow! Do you wear other people's brand new underwear and put it back in their drawer too? I am surprised at you Ken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Wow! Do you wear other people's brand new underwear and put it back in their drawer too? I am surprised at you Ken. Yeah I just don't tell my girlfriend. My point is it is freaking rock climb, it not like I am stealing nuclear physicist project and claiming that I came up theory. If I had scrubbed and cleaned some route and have someone send it and then give me all the beta on it, yeah I would be pissed. Now if I spent time setting a route and somebody climbed it before me and didn't tell me about it, then the climb should feel the same as if they didn't climb it. Now I got go sneak my girlfriends panties back in the draw before she notices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Uh, can I borrow them first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamsbud Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 Well that's a rap folks. I enjoyed all the input. I especially liked the Golden Rule bit! I think that sums it up best. Merry Christmas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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