Paradise winter parking info

[CascadeClimber]

Some thoughts and info on access to Mount Rainier this winter...

 

I spent about an hour on the phone today with an official at the park talking about access this winter and winter access in general. He asked me to help get the word out about parking in the Paradise area this winter.

 

The bottom line is that there are only about 20 spots at Paradise where overnight parking will be allowed this winter. About half will be set aside for climbers (the number most often mentioned is 9) and the remainder will be set aside for snow campers. Permits for these parking spots will be issued on a first-come first-served basis.

 

Due to the construction and, in my opinion, really bad planning, there are only 100 parking spots in total at Paradise this winter. Average weekday demand for parking is 70 spots. Average weekend demand is in the 150 to 180 range, and on a nice weekend the demand is around 300. Keep in mind that these numbers are approximate. But you can do the math on this and quickly see that there is not nearly enough parking for overnight climbers, campers, or day use this winter. There is no way to tell if you'll get a parking spot before you get down there, and with only nine or so overnight spots, there isn't anyway to call ahead and make sure something will be available.

 

Parties are strongly encouraged to carpool and large overnight camping groups will only be issued one parking permit for each nine people, effectively requiring them to shuttle themselves.

 

There is overnight parking at Narada Falls. In the past this has rarely been full. There will also be a good bit of overnight parking (no count, sorry) at the Nisqually (aka Glacier View) Bridge. So these two places are fallback options for Paradise. And if you can park there you may be able to hitch or otherwise get transported up to Paradise (this is my suggestion- the park is not recommending hitch hiking), and then ski (or snowshoe) back to either location.

 

I made a point to express my irritation with the way the re-opening of the park was managed last spring- that the guide services were allowed access when the public was not, and also pointed out that having another winter point of access to the park, like Ipsut or (even better) the White River turn-off or the Sunrise/White River wye or even the campground would ease the pressure on Paradise. Even when all the construction is done (May 2008), there will be a dearth of parking spaces, as the upper lot will hold the new visitor center and the old visitor center will not yet be torn down. And once it is torn down there will still be a net loss in parking spaces, relative to the way it used to be.

 

In my estimation we are headed toward a shuttle system in the park (or at least the Paradise area), though the person I spoke to acknowledged that there are some serious logistical problems with requiring climbers and backcountry users to shuttle, not the least of which is the question of transportation for climbers who arrive back at Paradise at 2:00 AM. I also pointed out that requiring a shuttle for climbers could push the cost for non-guided climbers to over $100 for a single outing, which excludes a group of people who should not be excluded from using a national resource.

 

I encourage everyone who has an opinion of any sort on this to call down to the park or write a letter. Raging at the people issuing permits at the museum or the Jackson Visitor Center won't be help the parking situation and it sends the wrong message about climbers. So again, if you have an opinion get involved.

 

This has been my once-in-a-decade public service announcement.

 

Loren

[jon]

The current situation sucks, complete lack of foresight by the Park. That said they did a remarkable job getting the Park open after last years devastatio... they deserve a lot of credit for that.

 

It's in our best interest to keep this thread as constructive as possible, because they will read this.

Edited November 21, 2007 by jon

[Mike_Gauthier]

I think it's fair to compare this situation to other construction delays on public roads. At some point, road improvements displace the public, but these are temporary displacements. No one likes to be stuck in traffic but a few months later, there is a new road.

 

Keep in mind that many more non-climbers were displaced at Paradise over the past two summers. Meanwhile, climbers and other overnight visitors were afforded a specific parking lot. Also, b/c climbers tended to arrive early, they had fewer problems accessing parking. Whereas 1,000’s of “day use” visitors were “shuffled along" to other areas b/c the Paradise parking lot was filled by 10 am.

 

Slaps at the NPS planning process of the new visitor center (which most people are excited about) are easy to make, but they aren't going to help the fact that there IS A REAL parking crunch at Paradise. To keep things in perspective, the parking crunch will affect everyone going to Paradise. Also, there was "foresight", but what options were you thinking? Pave some meadow to make more parking? Not build the new VC? Only build during the summer (which still displaces visitors)? Bottom line, there really wasn't a simple solution and they did discuss a variety of problems/issues at length.

 

Obviously, this is not a pretty situation "right now," but it's one that can be endured until the contractors finish the new visitor center (next fall). The best thing to do is to share the word about how Paradise will a tough place to visit on weekends this winter.

 

I advocate very hard, and sometimes successfully, for climbers on Mt Rainier, but there has to be some give, take AND understanding. Remember that climbers are a very small fraction of the total number of visitors to Mt. Rainier N.P. Given that there is limited paved space at Paradise and resources to deal with them (snow-plows, drivers, rangers, etc), it's hard to push the entire operation in favor of any specific group. The best thing to do is to inform the public as much as possible that things are going to be tight. At least you know that fact before coming up. And BTW, this really is a "weekend" issue.

 

Your point about the concession access last spring was/is heard. I hope you don’t think that this didn’t get brought up then. But it has nothing to do with the winter parking problem at Paradise.

 

The shuttle comments are stretching, as I don’t see a mandatory shuttle anytime soon at Mt Rainier. And yes, the NPS is aware of the complexity of making backcountry users rely on shuttles. The American Alpine Club voiced concern on that during the General Management Plan.

 

As for your other ideas about winter access, I applaud the notion of opening more roads in the winter, particularly the road to White River (Ipsut is another story IMO). I also know, however, that there just isn't enough $ to do this. It's not as simple as buying another plow or getting a few new employees. Public road management isn’t simple, clear or easy.

 

Which leads us to this fact: the NPS has a complex and diverse mission. On one hand, it provides access and recreational opportunities while on the other it seeks to preserve “park lands” as pristine as possible. Those two missions are not always congruent. In fact, they make for intense and sometimes bitter internal debates among staff and visitors. And it’s amazing how righteous and/or indignant those positions and the people behind them can get. I found the article by Joel Connelly about Dan Evan's very interesting, and it echoes some of my personal concern. It’s troubling to see differing outdoor/enviro groups who all seem to love/appreciate/visit our federal/NPS/USFS/BLM lands become so fractured and full of in-fighting. In that end, we all loose.

 

But as for parking at Paradise this winter, it's going to be tough. I will do what I can to inform the public as early as possible (blog).

[Mountainstyle]

Loren and Mike, thank you for the insightful information and opinions. It looks like access will be tricky this winter.

[catbirdseat]

It would be great if there were a shuttle available as an option for those who wished to use it. I wasn't aware of one.

[wolfs]

Devoting some effort to plowing out that picnic area (on weekends only) would be a big help. That would add probably another 75 spots if it was done right.

[dmuja]

 

 

FARK!

 

Possibly shut out for two winters in a row! Im selfishly pissed 'bout this - but maybe Ill train harder now for the "first come first served" fist fights at Longmire. Ok, Im just venting cuz its my xmas vacation we're talking about.I do understand the difficult logistics of the issue though - its just my gut that hurts. Maybe bribery? a little "holiday something" for the rangers? I'll settle for a lift on a snow plow.

 

A temporary limited shuttle would be pretty cool though from Longmire to Paradise - a couple few times a day maybe? (takes $$$..I know).

 

 

[CascadeClimber]

Devoting some effort to plowing out that picnic area (on weekends only) would be a big help. That would add probably another 75 spots if it was done right.

 

I asked about the picnic area and was told that they don't feel there is a safe pedestrian corridor to/from that area in the winter. I'm not saying I agree, just passing along what I was told.

[jon]

Mike, thanks for responding with more thought then I put into my post. I think my remarks were pretty off-base, and I apologize to the people at the park. When I was there last month, I was pretty surprised how much of the upper lot was fenced off, almost all of it from what I recall, with only 20 lined parking spots. Most of the fenced off area didn't appear utilized at all, which kind of was the basis of my stupid comment.

 

A friend of mine was up there today and said that most of the fencing has been removed and the parking situation is all most back to normal.

 

Again, great job to the Park for getting back up to operation after last Nov. storm!

[twistedsteel]

Just some comments/ observations on the current parking and access issues in the park. . . . During the past 9 years I have had the had the opportunity to spend hundreds of days working and playing in Mt. Rainier National Park. During this time I have grown increasingly concerned at the apparent "policy" that fewer visitors is a good thing.

 

A good example of this is the whole parking issue at Paradise. Parking has always been a problem during the summer months.(Cars idling for hours at the front gate, arguements over parking spots, seeing the "No Parking at Paradise" sign flashing at Longmire,doing laps in the upper lot looking for a space, etc.) While the answers are not easy to come by it would be comforting to know someone is working on this problem. In fact the opposite is true. When the new construction is done we, the taxpayers, will have fewer total parking spaces.

 

When I consider this issue along with the reduced access in the park. . . Westside Rd. "Closed Permanently" Carbon River Rd. "Closed Permanently?" Sunshine Point "Gone with no replacement planned". I really begin to wonder if park officials really want us visiting, camping, and driving in the park?

 

Last winter during the epic flood situation the announcement was made that the park would be opening up to foot traffic on the weekends. The hope was that this would bring some visitors to the local shops and retailers. It was also said that hikers and snowshoers would be able to access some trails and the Westside Rd. Unfortunately, this lasted only one weekend. It was announced that the park wasn't prepared to handle the number of

people on the road. Did they have a plan? Didn't they expect the public to come?

 

The Pacific Northwest is growing rapidly and other government agencies do their best to accomodate the growth. Officials at the NPS don't seem to be making the same effort. They do, however,find the time and money to improve their facilities.

 

I truly feel that if this were a priority solutions could be found. Here are a couple:

 

What if the park bought a few acres of land outside the entrance, paved it and ran a shuttle service every 20 minutes? To encourage usage they could knock a couple bucks off of the entry fee. The Longmire shuttle, while a good effort, really doesn't go far enough.

 

While this next idea might be laughed off the table I feel it should be a least considered. Why can't parking be increased at Paradise? I realize the number one priority of park officials is to protect the resource, but they already have acres of parking in the park why couldn't they add more? When you consider the actual size of Mt. Rainier National Park and compare it to the addition of 50-100 parking spaces I really don't see why it couldn't be considered. What is worse for the environment? The thousands of idling cars over the course of a summer or 50-100 new parking spots?

 

As someone who continues to visit the park every couple of weeks I have to wrap this up by saying I am continually amazed at the dedication and commitment shown by NPS employees. My concern is with the erosion of the public's opportunities to visit one of the most amazing places in the world.

 

 

[Jens]

Great post. Just trying to not lose 50-100 spots by shifting a few more to a slightly different place (clear or expand the shrinking lot) would do little environmental damage. After all, the place has historically had fake indian villages, a golf course, disneyland style go cart track, motorized ski hill (rope tow, and much more.

It is said to see access diminishing.

[letsroll]

Well coming from portland I will think twice about headed up there with the limited parking. Hate to head up pay, entrance fee, then not be able to find a parking spot. Or head up with the hope of climbing then not be able to find an overnight spot and thus kill the climbing. Or lie about my climbing intentions so I can get an overnight spot.

 

[ski2die]

I was at Raineir a month ago and the gate to Paradise was closed. I guess it closes at 4:30pm every day and doesnt open to cars until 8:30 the next morning. Can anyone confirm this? I would love to go up there and do some hiking but I cant get an early start if the gate is closed. Can I park overnight anywhere in paradise?