Advice on Mountaineering Skis

[Panos]

Hey there,

 

Thanks for checking this posting.

 

At age 34 I am going to buy my fist skis! The idea is to learn skiing for making mountaineering approaches and descents easier and doing some cross-country when the weather does not permit alpine climbing. So many different opinions around about what I should get ...

 

Ideally something light, compatible with my Koflach plastic boots (or other similar rigit mountaineering boots). Recently I read about "short skis" but I am not sure whether a beginner can start with something like that. How about looking for some Silvretta bindings to be put on a pair of 150cm narrow skis?

(boots size US12, height 6.1, weight 167 pounds)

 

All advice welcome, thanks!

 

Ibex

Edited November 11, 2007 by Panos

[warrior1515]

Last year I was in you same position. Wanted a ski that I can approach with and one that will work with my plastic boot. Also, I am not all that great of a skier. So, I went out and got a pair of Silvretta 404s attached to Atomic Touring Rainier 175s. Getting up the mountain everything went according to schedule. Going down, I looked like an idiot. I don't know if it is that the bindings were put on to perform more like a cross country ski or something else. I recently bought a pair of AT boots and tried them on my Atomics. Still no improvement. Maybe I really suck at skiing or I am not getting along with my Silvrettas. I am 5'10" at 185. After all this, I have purchased a real AT setup and looking forward to being able to ski again.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Dave

[Panos]

Aha!

I guess (solely from what I have read) that one of the reasons you did not feel comfortable with your Silvretta and plastic mountaineering boots is that your skis were too long for this setup. Anyway, thank you for your message. Let me know if you want to sell these bindings.

My cell# is removed

Cheers

Panos

Edited October 28, 2008 by jon

[warrior1515]

http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/spo/475131786.html

 

Not mine or affiliated

 

 

[Bigtree]

Panos, if your objective with the AT gear is for backcountry access rather than cranking turns, pretty much any new/used skis equiped with the Silvretta bindings coupled with mountaineering boots will do fine. You can pick up cheap used ones (skis that is) all over the place and needn't spend more than $50 - 100.

 

I have a buddy who skis with Scarpa Vega boots, the Silvretta bindings and some crappy old boards/skins. He has no problem keeping up with us with the set-up; however, when he tries skiing downhill - that's when the boots simply don't provide sufficient support and all hell tends to break loose.

 

As for ski length, since you're likely not going to be carving up the powder with a Koflack/Silvretta combo anyhow, I humbly suggest that a 150 cm ski is too short and you should consider something in the 170 - 180 cm range.

 

Lastly and in regards to your height-to-weight ratio, you need to start eating food soon otherwise you're likely break/expire from the elements the first time you stray more than 50 m from the car.

[mccallboater]

My first suggestion is to get some downhill lessons at your nearest ski hill. You can usually find some kind of first timer deal with lift pass, equipment rental and instruction. A few days with a good instructor and decent gear will do wonders. If you can stem cristie down a steep slope you can navigate most alpine terrain.

 

Then, shop around as the previous posters recommend. Look for deals, check the archives here for advice, and get a light Silveretta setup if you are intent on using your mountaineering boots. I use them to good effect with my skis, K2 8255's, nothing special. I also pack a few ounces of cheater gear; shin stiffeners taken from my alpine race boots plus velcro straps ,to stiffen the boot upper cuff. That improves the downhill performance considerably. I can ski comfortably on a typical resort "black diamond" slope with this gear, though if skiing 50 degree coulairs are the goal, I'll take ski mountaineering boots. But that's with 45 years of practice. Keep your skiing plans modest and you will have lots of fun.

[korup]

Lastly and in regards to your height-to-weight ratio, you need to start eating food soon otherwise you're likely break/expire from the elements the first time you stray more than 50 m from the car.

 

Does that mean I am fu**ed then, at 190 lb, and 6'5"? Should I just stay at home?

[pinegar]

Panos,

 

I was just walking and thinking of who to give a certain pair of skis too... I will give you (free come, free go) a pair of 181~cm "Rosignol Viper~X... Duratek...". They have a 20~m radius and ski extremely well. Looks like 5 years ago they sold new in the 250--500$ range. They have extremely heavy and adjustable bindings sure to fit any "downhill" boot. They are virtually unused, but each of these skis weighs significantly more than any \emph{pair} of backcountry skis. But if you go to "play it again sports" or anywhere with used downhill boots, and get the best fitting, cheapest and ugliest boots they have, you will have the perfect rig to ride the lifts a few days when they open and eventually find out what performance is about. Then you will have a gold standard and know what you're missing with future backcountry choices, (if anything). They are in my lab now.

 

I just bought (AT) Scarpa megalites and used Shukson 181's with dynafits, which saves 3.3~lbs over my tele rig and permits good crampon ice climbing. But I suspect I'll still use tele more for BC skiing. (Though I must say that after 1 trip out I am amazed with the strength and elegance of the dynafits. I was under a big pack in "slop" in a whiteout and took a couple falls I was sure had broken them.)

 

I was considering getting plastic or better climbing boots and approach skis like you're thinking instead, but I knew I'd always miss the control of real boots. The lightest rando-race boots I'm sure have infinitely more control than any "climbing" boot. It's the rotation of the foot/ski about the forward axis. But I'm just not so much of a climber, also.

 

In any case, I stress the importance of riding the lifts a few times before ever carrying skis up a hill. You needn't go back ... until you have kids. I'm amazed at how much work some peole do in the backcountry to ski so poorly!

[Stewster]

I just purchased an AT setup from the OMC swap this past weekend. I'm stoked and looking for partners to get vertical with. I'm an amatuer mountaineer bu an avid climber/skiier. Just love those mountains!

[Panos]

Dudes,

 

Thank you so much for the advice. At this early stage it is invaluable ... I will definitely hit the lifts first (since this is the most efficient way to learn the basics of skiing) and of course not with a Koflach/Silvretta setup. This way I will keep my silhouette and not loose any more weight.

 

At a local store I have found a pair of Atomic Rainier skis (170cm) fitted with Silvretta 500 bindings (Long size) and everything is in almost new condition. They go for $230. I think I will get them.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2007 by Panos

[mccallboater]

Great price. Go for it. Just make sure the binders fit your boots.

 

I just realized the word "binders" kind of dates me, doesn't it?

[Reinhart]

Panos - You're getting some good advise all the way around. Last year I climbed Denali and my setup was my mountaineering boots, Silvrettas and some old 190 telemark skis. Worked great on the uphill and messing around with no load on the downhill, but it was downright frightening going down from 14,000 to 7,000 with a full pack and a sled and I am an expert skier. I will never do that again. Ever since then if I feel I want skis for the approach or for a quick way down, I just wear my AT boots which are just a couple ounces heavier than my mountaineering boots and ski like a dream. Long story short, if you want to enjoy the skiing, then you will eventually need to just buck up and get a pair of high quality AT boots and just summit in those. The boots are the most important piece of equipment when it comes to skiing. Skiing in mountaineering boots feels like you have slippers attached to planks. Once you put any weight on your back all the fun goes out the window.

[rbw1966]

Another thing you can do is put your skins on for the downhill sections too. Not "fun" but it does keep things a bit more under control if you are a terrible skier and/or using mountaineering boots.

[jared_j]

I'm interested in putting together a cheap setup like Panos is seeking; emphasis being on ease of travel to and from climbs, not on ski performance. I've already procured some Silvretta 500's on the cheap (thank you craigslist), but uncertain about ski length. I'm 6' tall, weigh 145 lbs. I have seen a spectrum of recommendations here:

 

-Colin Haley's article on this site recommends short kids skis

-in Extreme Alpinism Mark Twight also recommends shorter, like 130-140cm

-a contributor to this thread suggests skis that seem only slightly shorter than 'normal' for a traditional alpine or randonee length

 

I currently ride a 177cm ski at the ski resort, and only have one season of skiing under my belt (this season my girlfriend and I sprung for season passes to Snoqualmie and plan on skiing very frequently in an effort to develop technique and have tons of fun).

 

I found some moderately used 170cm BD Arc Angels (from 2001) on craigslist for $40. Price is right, but is this gonna be too long for me to turn easily with a plastic climbing boot? I will be using my Koflach Verticals.

 

Edit: punctuation

Edited November 16, 2007 by jared_j

[benb]

I ski a fat 186 length, 118-96-111 ski. Garmont Mega-Ride and Dynafit comfort bindings. The thought of climbing in my mountaneering boots makes me think broken bones and ligaments. I would never do it. I ski the same set up in the resort, the back country and climbing. With skins on a ski that long and wide, they stick like glue to the hill. Also great flotation on the deep stuff for climbing and skiing. Wide shaped skis are so much fun to ski why would you want anything else. Ive found the snow conditions up high are usually not Ideal. You want a ski that will handle crud. I would ski on that set up as much as you can. You must become one with your set up. Your boots are without doubt the most important piece of the set up. I love my garmonts, would recomend them to all.

[cheamclimber]

Lastly and in regards to your height-to-weight ratio, you need to start eating food soon otherwise you're likely break/expire from the elements the first time you stray more than 50 m from the car.

 

Does that mean I am fu**ed then, at 190 lb, and 6'5"? Should I just stay at home?

 

I'm really screwed than at 5ft 10' and 125 pounds

[Bigtree]

I'm really screwed than at 5ft 10' and 125 pounds

 

Rather mystifying since according to my calculations you shouldn't even exist. Go straight to the fridge and don't stop eating until you hit 198.65 lbs.

[cheamclimber]

I'm really screwed than at 5ft 10' and 125 pounds

 

Rather mystifying since according to my calculations you shouldn't even exist. Go straight to the fridge and don't stop eating until you hit 198.65 lbs.

 

hahahaha...I'm also only 15...

[Panos]

Benb,

 

What you say about fats with skins is very interesting. Though if you were going up Denali or something very technical (say an M5) you too would consider using mountaineering boots instead of your A/Ts.

 

Thanks for your message.

P.