tomtom Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 The Communist Party is just one big union. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 Well, you go on with your bad self and "unionize" the ChiComms, smart guy. If i knew a way...except I could call it making China a Democracy. My ideal of a union is not some communist mechanism, but rather people coming together and standing up for all people. I know that unions here in the States haven't exactly performed as such all the time, but they have had their moments in history...not unlike a nation coming together to elect a president. Some Chinese people tried to come together and stand up for all the people. The outcome was not so good. I'm sure attempts to stand up and unionize would fare better though. I see you have gotten on JayB's Bus of Pessimism. Come now, join hands and sing "We are the World" with me. Pessimism? It's called observation and noting the results. I was quite optimistic when the statue of freedom was erected, and the student shouted down that tank. That optimism was squashed pretty quickly and completely. Unions in China = Quote
olyclimber Posted November 6, 2007 Author Posted November 6, 2007 now now KK, We are the world, we are the children We are the ones who make a brighter day So lets start giving Theres a choice we're making We're saving out own lives its true we'll make a better day Just you and me Send them your heart so they'll know that someone cares And their lives will be stronger and free As God has shown us by turning stones to brend So we all must lend a helping hand Quote
olyclimber Posted November 6, 2007 Author Posted November 6, 2007 you see...it doesn't matter what you think. its about the children. a hope for a new day. and micheal jackson. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 now now KK, We are the world, we are the children We are the ones who make a brighter day So lets start giving Theres a choice we're making We're saving out own lives its true we'll make a better day Just you and me Send them your heart so they'll know that someone cares And their lives will be stronger and free As God has shown us by turning stones to brend So we all must lend a helping hand It's time for you to visit Room 101, Winston. Quote
JayB Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 I'm actually really quite interested in your analysis of this phenomenon. Or Marylou's. Quote
olyclimber Posted November 6, 2007 Author Posted November 6, 2007 you sad sack. but here is the kicker! I believe that one day you're believe in a brighter future. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 you sad sack. but here is the kicker! I believe that one day you're believe in a brighter future. "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever." Quote
Bug Posted November 6, 2007 Posted November 6, 2007 I never really thought I would hear someone call a sweatshop a wonderful thing! Who said that? It wasn't me. You are using absolutes that remind me of the Bushites. The arbitrary point (unionization)you picked is more then 100 years into our industrialization. Why do you need to have everything be OK right now? At what cost will you try to force this? Economics involve the redistribution of scarce resources for a desired outcome. Because I do not share your timetable I am evil? I have been involved in 3rd world economic development. I have sweeted beside them and seen them rise out of mud floored shacks to apartments. Sub-standard by your estimation I am sure. Now they are sending their children to school. There is much more to come. And they had to kiss the devil (large corporations) for awhile. It takes time and patience. This is NOT the same as giving in and giving up. Take a deep breath. I'm breathing fine Bug. My apologies to you, but I took this comment the wrong way apparently: "These people had NO hope before they were being "exploited"." I just don't see why it seems your are belittling (with quotes) what is exploitation? What EXACTLY was their situation before they became industrialized? Subsistence farmers? I don't know, perhaps KK will step in an school me. I'm not just talking about China here...all of SW Asia that has "sweatshop" type stuff going on. Don't apologize to me or I will be offended. Open communications are a good thing. Emaotion is a part of us and is all too often subjugated by social norms. That is why I love the internet. We can do this. exploitation is not exploitation if it is the oly path to a better life. This isot Machiavellia. It is a process with the US standard in mind. Well, i Africa it is becoming China that gets top billing. I am not against unions or working HARD for better standards. We just can't get there without building up to it. I have felt the way your words suggest you feel. I do not trust corporations and I never will. Unions will come because as the workers become better trained, it is not economically viable to fire them and hire more starving peasants. This has worked out in many places. Efforts to hasten the process toward equality with us are often destructive to the goal. Quote
olyclimber Posted November 7, 2007 Author Posted November 7, 2007 I'm actually really quite interested in your analysis of this phenomenon. Or Marylou's. I would LOVE to analyze something for you Jay. Was it your equation of unions to communism? Well, I think you're wrong to make that equation. But maybe I have a different definition than you have of what exactly a union is (or rather, what an optimal union is). KK pointed out that unions can exist outside of communism. Would you agree? Or are they ,in your eyes, little communist sleeper cells? Quote
olyclimber Posted November 7, 2007 Author Posted November 7, 2007 you sad sack. but here is the kicker! I believe that one day you're believe in a brighter future. "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever." I'm outing you as a buddhist right now! Quote
olyclimber Posted November 7, 2007 Author Posted November 7, 2007 Engrish? i make you feel grow taller. for you, no charge. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 you sad sack. but here is the kicker! I believe that one day you're believe in a brighter future. "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever." I'm outing you as a buddhist right now! \ pssst. it's Orwell. Quote
tomtom Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 The Communist Party is the People`s Party. Quote
olyclimber Posted November 7, 2007 Author Posted November 7, 2007 you sad sack. but here is the kicker! I believe that one day you're believe in a brighter future. "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever." I'm outing you as a buddhist right now! \ pssst. it's Orwell. Thanks! Now I really think you're smart! Quote
olyclimber Posted November 7, 2007 Author Posted November 7, 2007 (edited) What I would like for you do now JayB is chart the timeline of these peoples road to prosperity now that we have given them the luxery of sweatshops. What is next for them? Go ahead, answer. Edited November 7, 2007 by porter Quote
olyclimber Posted November 7, 2007 Author Posted November 7, 2007 Ha...I OUT DEBATED ALL OF YOU. LOSERS! I AM THE VICTOR. I guess that makes me..... Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 you sad sack. but here is the kicker! I believe that one day you're believe in a brighter future. "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever." I'm outing you as a buddhist right now! \ pssst. it's Orwell. Thanks! Now I really think you're smart! gee, I could have said I think you're really dumb after every one of your clueless points, but refrained. Quote
olyclimber Posted November 7, 2007 Author Posted November 7, 2007 because, in your heart of hearts, you know i iz teh winnar. conversely, that would make you a loser. but i won't bring that up. I WON'T FIGHT AN UNARMED MAN IN A BATTLE OF WITS!!!!!!1 ppsstt..its....ah nevermind Quote
olyclimber Posted November 7, 2007 Author Posted November 7, 2007 as the saying goes about arguing on the internet...well, I can't say it any more since I have taken on the role of compassionate healer of the worlds woes. Quote
JayB Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 I'm actually really quite interested in your analysis of this phenomenon. Or Marylou's. I would LOVE to analyze something for you Jay. Was it your equation of unions to communism? Well, I think you're wrong to make that equation. But maybe I have a different definition than you have of what exactly a union is (or rather, what an optimal union is). KK pointed out that unions can exist outside of communism. Would you agree? Or are they ,in your eyes, little communist sleeper cells? "I would LOVE to analyze something for you Jay. Was it your equation of unions to communism? Well, I think you're wrong to make that equation." Since I've never equated the two, this is a curious statement. Why did the Communist party in China - and virtually every other communist state - outlaw unions? Conversely, why was George Meany* a strident anti-communist? *Help. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 I'm actually really quite interested in your analysis of this phenomenon. Or Marylou's. I would LOVE to analyze something for you Jay. Was it your equation of unions to communism? Well, I think you're wrong to make that equation. But maybe I have a different definition than you have of what exactly a union is (or rather, what an optimal union is). KK pointed out that unions can exist outside of communism. Would you agree? Or are they ,in your eyes, little communist sleeper cells? "I would LOVE to analyze something for you Jay. Was it your equation of unions to communism? Well, I think you're wrong to make that equation." Since I've never equated the two, this is a curious statement. Why did the Communist party in China - and virtually every other communist state - outlaw unions? Conversely, why was George Meany* a strident anti-communist? *Help. I can see Porter's response now... snide "UR SO SMART" with an attempt at humor which falls as flat as his "argument". Quote
olyclimber Posted November 7, 2007 Author Posted November 7, 2007 I'm not reading that link till you answer my question above. as for why the communist party outlawed unions? because the people might be expecting democracy next. duh. it is the same empowerment thing that i believe is a positive element of unions. not unlike our (the American people) ability to overthrow our government every four years, even though most of us seem to have given up on that concept (most of the voting public) i apologize for speculating that you made that equation. Quote
olyclimber Posted November 7, 2007 Author Posted November 7, 2007 I'm actually really quite interested in your analysis of this phenomenon. Or Marylou's. I would LOVE to analyze something for you Jay. Was it your equation of unions to communism? Well, I think you're wrong to make that equation. But maybe I have a different definition than you have of what exactly a union is (or rather, what an optimal union is). KK pointed out that unions can exist outside of communism. Would you agree? Or are they ,in your eyes, little communist sleeper cells? "I would LOVE to analyze something for you Jay. Was it your equation of unions to communism? Well, I think you're wrong to make that equation." Since I've never equated the two, this is a curious statement. Why did the Communist party in China - and virtually every other communist state - outlaw unions? Conversely, why was George Meany* a strident anti-communist? *Help. I can see Porter's response now... snide "UR SO SMART" with an attempt at humor which falls as flat as his "argument". who is the little bitch now? Quote
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