archenemy Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 It happening is one thing, and largley unavoidable given all stripes of men are sent to war - but that's not the same as our government officially embracing, sanctioning, and encouraging it's use. It's only a matter of time before someone nabs one of our troops and youtubes a video of them being subjected to exactly these techniques just to rub our faces in our own dirt, shit, and holes... I think that throughout history, men in war have embraced and santioned torture in its many forms. That is what war is in essence--torture. So to act all shocked like we are so above it all (professional was your word I think) is bemusing to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 That means Clinton invented the blow job. Wonder why he's not more popular?  Lewinsky invented it; that's enough to make anyone go flaccid  What? You don’t like fat chicks?  I'll leave them to you.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007  pay attention, Bone, he is MEDIOCRE.   Holy cow….if you think he is mediocre…..I would hate to see what you think is really bad….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 It happening is one thing, and largley unavoidable given all stripes of men are sent to war - but that's not the same as our government officially embracing, sanctioning, and encouraging it's use. It's only a matter of time before someone nabs one of our troops and youtubes a video of them being subjected to exactly these techniques just to rub our faces in our own dirt, shit, and holes... I think that throughout history, men in war have embraced and santioned torture in its many forms. That is what war is in essence--torture. So to act all shocked like we are so above it all (professional was your word I think) is bemusing to me. Â Arch, again, shit happens in war, but that is vastly different than adopting torture as an official policy of our nation. We are a signatory to an international convention specifically outlawing its use. That we as nation have formally established policy, infrastructure, and resources explicitly for the purpose of torture has bankrupted whatever integrity we had in the eyes of most the world. Except for scale, after our performance of the past four years we are now indistinquishable from Stalin's Russia relative to the use of gulags, torture, and murder. Â It is a bold stain on the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights - and our nation. OBL succeeded beyond his wildest dreams in this respect; he simply got us to tear at the very foundation of this country for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007  pay attention, Bone, he is MEDIOCRE.   Holy cow….if you think he is mediocre…..I would hate to see what you think is really bad…..  you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007  pay attention, Bone, he is MEDIOCRE.   Holy cow….if you think he is mediocre…..I would hate to see what you think is really bad…..  you.  What a mediocre answer…….  No really…..if you think there is a worse president…..lets hear who.    Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007  pay attention, Bone, he is MEDIOCRE.   Holy cow….if you think he is mediocre…..I would hate to see what you think is really bad…..  you.  What a mediocre answer…….  No really…..if you think there is a worse president…..lets hear who.    linky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 the difference between dems and reps is paper thin , in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 It happening is one thing, and largley unavoidable given all stripes of men are sent to war - but that's not the same as our government officially embracing, sanctioning, and encouraging it's use. It's only a matter of time before someone nabs one of our troops and youtubes a video of them being subjected to exactly these techniques just to rub our faces in our own dirt, shit, and holes... I think that throughout history, men in war have embraced and santioned torture in its many forms. That is what war is in essence--torture. So to act all shocked like we are so above it all (professional was your word I think) is bemusing to me. Â Arch, again, shit happens in war, but that is vastly different than adopting torture as an official policy of our nation. We are a signatory to an international convention specifically outlawing its use. That we as nation have formally established policy, infrastructure, and resources explicitly for the purpose of torture has bankrupted whatever integrity we had in the eyes of most the world. Except for scale, after our performance of the past four years we are now indistinquishable from Stalin's Russia relative to the use of gulags, torture, and murder. Â It is a bold stain on the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights - and our nation. OBL succeeded beyond his wildest dreams in this respect; he simply got us to tear at the very foundation of this country for him. the only purpose of torture is the act itself. men of war go to to extremes to get a good excuse to do it and sell it to horrified bystanders as necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Â Assuming this is actually going on as you claim he should stop it. If he doesn't then I favor oversight on the matter - special investigation, whatever. Â But all I ever hear about in a serious context is the waterboarding claim. It seems there is evidence we actually do that, it is "sanctioned", and they have something there. The other examples cited don't seem to carry much weight as legitimate, otherwise they'd be what's referenced all the time, not waterboarding. Â True to form, KKK will pontificate endlessly without bothering to read the previous link that provides detailed documentation of the torture that has occurred, as compiled by the ICRC, probably one of the most impartial organizations on the planet. Of course, we all know how those liberal fuckers lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007  pay attention, Bone, he is MEDIOCRE.   Holy cow….if you think he is mediocre…..I would hate to see what you think is really bad…..  you.  What a mediocre answer…….  No really…..if you think there is a worse president…..lets hear who.    linky   Uh…..how about your own opinion? And please choose a president in the last 75 years….jeez….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 (edited) Â Arch, again, shit happens in war, but that is vastly different than adopting torture as an official policy of our nation. We are a signatory to an international convention specifically outlawing its use. That we as nation have formally established policy, infrastructure, and resources explicitly for the purpose of torture has bankrupted whatever integrity we had in the eyes of most the world. Except for scale, after our performance of the past four years we are now indistinquishable from Stalin's Russia relative to the use of gulags, torture, and murder. Â It is a bold stain on the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights - and our nation. OBL succeeded beyond his wildest dreams in this respect; he simply got us to tear at the very foundation of this country for him. Â I couldn't agree more here. Studies have shown over and over again the human beings under duress, when their senses and ability to process information are overloaded in a deadly situation, can and will do things far more extreme than they would do under normal circumstances. In these situations, a purse or a toy becomes a gun, and bad things happen to the innocent. Â Systematic torture, and I believe the evidence to indicate that this is supported from the President on down is overwhelming at this point (although some here are still back at square one trying to argue that it has not occurred...tee hee). This is a much more agregious act than those committed regrettably but impulsively by soldiers in combat situations. Â Oh, and BTW, Kevbone and KKK, let's stick with torture for a while. Who the fuck cares whether Bush is the worst, 2nd worst, or 20th worst president. Pull some hair from your ass, count them, and that's your answer. It's a five-year-old's musing, not a debate topic. Edited October 19, 2007 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007  pay attention, Bone, he is MEDIOCRE.   Holy cow….if you think he is mediocre…..I would hate to see what you think is really bad…..  you.  What a mediocre answer…….  No really…..if you think there is a worse president…..lets hear who.    linky   Uh…..how about your own opinion? And please choose a president in the last 75 years….jeez…..  In the last 75 years, Carter was worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007  Oh, and BTW, Kevbone and KKK, let's stick with torture for a while. Who the fuck cares whether Bush is the worst, 2nd worst, or 20th worst president.   Haven’t you ever heard of thread drift? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007  Oh, and BTW, Kevbone and KKK, let's stick with torture for a while. Who the fuck cares whether Bush is the worst, 2nd worst, or 20th worst president.   Haven’t you ever heard of thread drift?  he's also never heard of the ignore option. a pathetic little ankle biter who follows me around and responds to my posts which I only see if they are quoted by another participant.  you're a few notches above him/it, K'bone.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007  Oh, and BTW, Kevbone and KKK, let's stick with torture for a while. Who the fuck cares whether Bush is the worst, 2nd worst, or 20th worst president.   Haven’t you ever heard of thread drift?  he's also never heard of the ignore option. a pathetic little ankle biter who follows me around and responds to my posts which I only see if they are quoted by another participant.  you're a few notches above him/it, K'bone.  Holy shit KK…..you have me rolling over here…..I follow you around……where? In the web? Ok dude…..you win……    Ankle biter…..hahahahaha   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I follow you around……  Not you - he/it/Trashtalkingloser.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007  pay attention, Bone, he is MEDIOCRE.   Holy cow….if you think he is mediocre…..I would hate to see what you think is really bad…..  you.  What a mediocre answer…….  No really…..if you think there is a worse president…..lets hear who.    take off your hate goggles and see. "CARTER" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimbingPanther Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 ankle-biting.... kinky! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007  pay attention, Bone, he is MEDIOCRE.   Holy cow….if you think he is mediocre…..I would hate to see what you think is really bad…..  you.  What a mediocre answer…….  No really…..if you think there is a worse president…..lets hear who.    linky   Uh…..how about your own opinion? And please choose a president in the last 75 years….jeez…..  What a lame response after he gave you a link to 11 worse ones.. LOL lame. Learn some history I saw a bunch on the list in the last 75 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 Well, not sure of that linky. I think Nixon should have done prison time, but he was a f#cking god among Presidents compared to W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007  pay attention, Bone, he is MEDIOCRE.   Holy cow….if you think he is mediocre…..I would hate to see what you think is really bad…..  you.  What a mediocre answer…….  No really…..if you think there is a worse president…..lets hear who.    linky   Uh…..how about your own opinion? And please choose a president in the last 75 years….jeez…..  What a lame response after he gave you a link to 11 worse ones.. LOL lame. Learn some history I saw a bunch on the list in the last 75 years.  You voted to Bush…..how does it feel to have the deaths of all the innocent on YOUR hands?  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Well, not sure of that linky. I think Nixon should have done prison time, but he was a f#cking god among Presidents compared to W. Â Â Post of the day! Thanks JH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007  pay attention, Bone, he is MEDIOCRE.   Holy cow….if you think he is mediocre…..I would hate to see what you think is really bad…..  you.  What a mediocre answer…….  No really…..if you think there is a worse president…..lets hear who.    linky   Uh…..how about your own opinion? And please choose a president in the last 75 years….jeez…..  What a lame response after he gave you a link to 11 worse ones.. LOL lame. Learn some history I saw a bunch on the list in the last 75 years.  You voted to Bush…..how does it feel to have the deaths of all the innocent on YOUR hands?  and people die everyday from drinking. Do you drink???? The fact that you say that shows your lame ass reasoning. Personal I don't think he out there killing innocents on purpose like Suicide bombers coming into a market place and just blowing themselves up in hte middle of ordinary people. I think he feels like he doing the right thing for the saftey of this country. And for you to sit there and say he a murderer is a typically fantical Dem bullshit. In fact it makes you a complete dumb ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 It happening is one thing, and largley unavoidable given all stripes of men are sent to war - but that's not the same as our government officially embracing, sanctioning, and encouraging it's use. It's only a matter of time before someone nabs one of our troops and youtubes a video of them being subjected to exactly these techniques just to rub our faces in our own dirt, shit, and holes... I think that throughout history, men in war have embraced and santioned torture in its many forms. That is what war is in essence--torture. So to act all shocked like we are so above it all (professional was your word I think) is bemusing to me. Â Arch, again, shit happens in war, but that is vastly different than adopting torture as an official policy of our nation. We are a signatory to an international convention specifically outlawing its use. That we as nation have formally established policy, infrastructure, and resources explicitly for the purpose of torture has bankrupted whatever integrity we had in the eyes of most the world. Except for scale, after our performance of the past four years we are now indistinquishable from Stalin's Russia relative to the use of gulags, torture, and murder. Â It is a bold stain on the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights - and our nation. OBL succeeded beyond his wildest dreams in this respect; he simply got us to tear at the very foundation of this country for him. Just to be clear up front--I am not a fan of anyone forcing anyone to do anything and using violence to accomplish their goal. Also, I don't think adopting torture as an official policy is good either. I don't think torture affects our Declaration of Independence--this has nothing to do with not being under Britain's rule. It has little to do with the Constitution--that document doesn't outline the activities not allowed during war. Nor does it have anything to do with the Bill of Rights--those apply to Americans, not to what we do to foreigners whom we are at war with. But what I do think it at stake is our believability. If we say we aren't doing something, then dammit, don't do it. If we are doing something unsavory as torture, then fess up and figure out what the hell we do from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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