Fixed Anchors

[DCramer]

I was out at Vantage last weekend and remembered how I had questions about some of the anchors there. In particular the anchors without hangers using what looks like a Powers 5 piece bolt. Any experiences replacing the chain with this type of anchor?

 

Some newer anchors used the Fixe horizontal hangers w/ ring. These were placed side by side which seems perfect for maximizing wear.

 

[billcoe]

No, sorry but if they're broke, best to just Fixe them.

 

 

[kevbone]

No, sorry but if they're broke, best to just Fixe them.

 

 

But if it an’t broke, don’t fix it.

[DCramer]

I was out at Vantage last weekend and remembered how I had questions about some of the anchors there. In particular the anchors without hangers using what looks like a Powers 5 piece bolt. Any experiences replacing the chain with this type of anchor?

 

I guess the answer is no.

[Off_White]

I'm confused as to what you want to do.

 

Put a hanger onto an existing Rawl 5 piece? Usually works fine to just thread the bolt out and put a hanger on, the cone sticks in the sleeve, stays put to replace it.

 

Adding chains is a matter of using a Rapide link to attach the chain to the hanger. The plus side is that maintenance and replacement is pretty easy. Bummer is that the hardware can be removed by the casual vandal out to score some material, even threadlocker is not a guarantee. Not that you'd wanna put that stuff on the bolt threaded into the cone anyway...

 

I'm not a huge Fixe fan. Those horizontal hangers with the ring remind me of those old pop top hangers that put an outwards pull on the bolt, and the single welded ring can't be easily replaced when the yahoos TR their entire wedding entourage with their grit filled rope run right through the ring.

 

Of course, maybe you intend something completely different?

[DCramer]

I'm confused as to what you want to do.

 

Put a hanger onto an existing Rawl 5 piece? Usually works fine to just thread the bolt out and put a hanger on, the cone sticks in the sleeve, stays put to replace it.

 

Adding chains is a matter of using a Rapide link to attach the chain to the hanger. The plus side is that maintenance and replacement is pretty easy. Bummer is that the hardware can be removed by the casual vandal out to score some material, even threadlocker is not a guarantee. Not that you'd wanna put that stuff on the bolt threaded into the cone anyway...

 

I'm not a huge Fixe fan. Those horizontal hangers with the ring remind me of those old pop top hangers that put an outwards pull on the bolt, and the single welded ring can't be easily replaced when the yahoos TR their entire wedding entourage with their grit filled rope run right through the ring.

 

Of course, maybe you intend something completely different?

 

Off -

 

I completely agree with you regarding the Fixe anchors.

 

Many of the anchors at Vantage (and 38/Si for that matter) use a sandwich of 4-5 Washers|Chain|4-5 washers. No hangers are used -I assume as a cost cutting measure. One problem with this setup is that it’s a pain to replace the chain. With the rapide setup you just clip off to the hanger and replace the chain. With this setup you completely loose the anchor while upgrading the chain.

 

Some of the anchors appear to use wedge anchors. In that case it is (at least in theory) a fairly simple matter of removing the nut and replacing the washer-chain-washer sandwich.

 

Other anchors appear to use five piece bolts. My experience on some west side slabs it that is not uncommon for the five piece anchors to loose their ability to be replaced. I was wondering if this has been a problem at Vantage. I was also curious about what length bolts were used.

 

I just planned on throwing a few pieces of chain in my pack next time I go there but didn't want to create a big mess that I couldn't clean up without a drill.

 

[Off_White]

Yeah, I wondered if it was chain sandwiches - their appeal is that without hangers they tend to be less attractive to thieves and you save a good $10 per anchor by skipping hangers and Rapides (assuming you use something better than small hardware store links). On the downside, there are some questionable aspects as to how they load the bolt (though sport climbing TR loads are not that high, I haven't heard of any catastrophic failures), not everyone does a good job with washers to keep from pinching the chain against the rock, and as you've noted, maintenance/replacement is problematic.

 

I would expect that simply re-using the 5 piece bolts would be tough to impossible - the hole is likely deep enough to snug the head of the bolt up to a hanger. Since the bolt is sticking out a good inch or so, isn't it, you'd have to drive the bolt deeper. One might have to pull and re-drill (larger diameter?) or simply chop and abandon, a pain in the ass no matter how it goes. There's a lot of chain sandwiches at City of Rocks and Banks Lake too.

 

A simpler maintenance approach would be to use either bolt cutters or a cordless angle grinder to remove the worn working end of the chain, adding a Rapide link if needed. Still a pain, and it doesn't address the question of the way the chain loads the extended bolt. How long a bolt did they use anyway, how far into the rock does the bolt go? It's anyone's guess, isn't it? In the long haul, chain sandwiches are a poor choice for anchors.

 

I'm sad to say I've got a bunch of those to replace in Tenino too. Damned cheap bastards, who put those in anyway?

[mattp]

I was a big fan of those Fixe stations for a while, and I've draped a lot of them all over the rock in Darrington. I like them because you can buy them powder-coated, and they are easy to deal with when you arrive at or leave a belay station. Also, my original thinking was that many climbers want to see climbing equipment at a belay station rather than some hardware store mystery mank.

 

More recently, however, I've come to prefer short lengths of chain and quick links. The bigger the better. It is not as important to set these up with the bolts within a 1/4" of the right distance from each other, you can get chain that is bigger and accepts fat-stock carabiners more easily, and someone will be able to swap them out more easily without necessarily having to remove a hanger.

 

The Fixe stuff seems of mixed quality, too. I bought several powder coated chain anchors that were sold as stainless steel but were not, and some of the welds are a bit rough.

 

Either way, good quality hardware is not cheap. I can see why some folks who are establishing a lot of climbs might be tempted to use a variety of sub-standard materials and employ whatever they may buy at a garage sale or close-out bin. On Squire Creek Wall there are several belay stations that are made with galvanized fence clamps!

[Off_White]

Hmmm, is that Squire Creek madness the work of Zippy, he of the 3/16" hangerless buttonheads?

[mattp]

Nope. I think it was a different guy who used the fence post clamps. They are pretty bomber looking - kind of like an open cold shut but more secure and way huge, but with vaguely sharp edges to them. They were not manufactured for climbing but I have no worries that they will break any time soon.