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Yossarian

Outer Space

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Outer Space TR:

Went up on Sunday

No other climbers

Sunburn

No porn on the ledge.

Partner almost stepped on rattlesnake

Goat is looking good, still shedding

Anyway, I wanted to know the best way to rappel the wall as it would probably be more enjoyable than scrambling off the backside.

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The descent "scramble" is a breeze. Its probably way easier than rapping down a way popular face and getting a bunch of climbers pissed at you cause your throwing your rope on their heads, or risking getting ropes stuck. Plus you'll have to take two ropes. Just walk off.

[This message has been edited by specialed (edited 07-02-2001).]

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Yeah, I know it's not that bad. But with three people we had two ropes anyway. I'm looking for an excuse not to walk down in my climbing shoes as well as spending a little more time on the rock.

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some associates of mine have been investigating a new 4-pitch line to the left of Orbit. The bulk of the climb follows a beautiful golden slab. They have abandoned the idea, basically, there are just too many "blank" sections and they have heard negative feedback for a long sport route there. We still couldn't really figure out where those old routes like Chtong really go. Anyone know or care? The funny thing is that some people were pleased to hear a "rappel route" was going in. Huh? Who would want to make 4 or 5 double rappels when you can scramble off in half an hour? Climbers bred in city gyms just don't get that intangible resourcefulness that being in the mountains brings. The route on Condor has already seen some near epics and one rescue cuz people just don't know how to hike anymore. 6 parties in a day on that route? Scary! I hope they brought helmets.

Anyway, the descent off Snow Creek is nothing compared to 6 pitches of class 5 climbing. If it's that brutal for ya, bring a hang glider or stick to the roadside stuff. Nothing personal here, I've just heard way too many complaints about the

descent. I like the idea of a 2-mile long waterslide that takes you right to the parking lot.

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Viktor is correct here in my opinion. If you can't deal with a 30 minute walk off that is easier than the climb then consider something else I say. I mean gimme a break the descent is not that bad at all. Is that another reason to put more bolts in??!! And oh yeah the next time I do O space I will be choppin' any rap bolts, I promise. So all you people out there placing stupid bolts I will be on the prowl to chop them tongue.gif

[This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 07-03-2001).]

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Here's a question: Has any one here who claims to a bolt chopper ever done so? And if they have are they "Trad" enough to admit it under their real names? Just wondering as all this bolt chopping chatter is a bit tedious.

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Doesn't matter other than defacing good routes and rock. Don't get me wrong I see a place for bolts just not for rappelling on Snow Creek wall.

I am getting sick of the looks of DDD on Castle and am considering chopping that one next.

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Sure it matters. Why have only a very few "choppers" over the years been willing to unabashedly publicly take responsibilty for their specific actions?

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The crazy shit thats going on in Leavenworth these days. I've heard of more bolts being placed in the Icicle than any other time. Maybe information is becoming more public because of this website? Who knows?

Bolting rap stations on Outer Space? What is next, shooting a line of bolts spaced 2 feet a part up ROTC. If the point is to make a "safer" route, than maybe whoever bolted the stations should hang up their harness and take up knitting. One of the nice things about Outer Space is that it serves as an intro to other harder and more remote mountain routes. The lessons learned on routes like OS are important. What, the worst that can happen is you make a bad decision and go up high and get rained off. So you might have to leave some gear? But you will for sure learn how to get off something when retreat in the only option. What happened to adventure, self reliance and the freedom of venturing into the unknown?

This spray only leads to one thing. Time to stop cranking on the computer and go out climbing!

 

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Caveman Ray,

I think you came to two incorrect assumptions. First off, anyone can "handle" the walk off. I just figured there must be a straight shot to the bottom where one can get some kicks zippin down a line. Second, no one is placing additional bolts or mentioned anything of that nature. The activity of chopping bolts is mostly performed by those who place their own ego driven ideals above that which is good for the sport (some exceptions). Picking up trash at the base or cleaning up some forgotten route seems to be a better use of time.

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Capt'n -

Not sure if I even want to stop you. I was just making an observation on the behavior of the majority of those wanting to chop bolts.

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Yos,

There was no assumption made. I just think you are getting flamed because I said I would chop them and other bolts. There is no bad blood relax.

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I have to side with the Captain on this one. The fewer bolts the better. Climbing shouldn't be packaged for mass consumption. Just because its so easy to place bolts these days doesn't mean we should. If a route has no or a few bolts and its considered committing or dangerous, so be it. We shouldn't make it "safe" and easy for everyone. If someone's out chopping bolts maybe the dudes who overdrill will think twice next time.

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Ray: Although I doubt if I would ever have the ability to climb DDD, I would appreciate someone with the skills and knowledge to chop the bolts on that route. It pisses me off that someone in the year 2001 has bolted a route on which a first ascent was done in 1963. Let's bolt the Tooth next.

If you need a belay, let me know. I would be more than happy to help with this project in any way that I can.

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EV,

I have another offer but will contact you if I need any help. I just need the time to get around to it at this point.

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NOone was arguing for bolts, but you were claiming bolt choppers were primarily motivated by their own egos as opposed to a worthy ideal. I'm just saying I agree with chopping in many instances as well as the ideas that fuel that action.

Capt: what's the DDD route all about?

[This message has been edited by specialed (edited 07-03-2001).]

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