A pick Q

[IceIceBaby]

What is the difference between the Charlet Moser Quad Pick to the Charlet Moser Cascade Pick for the Quark, aside then the Cascade being 3 mm and the Quad being 4 mm

:-?

[thelawgoddess]

quote:

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Originally posted by forrest_m:

the teeth at the top of the quad pick (also known as the 4x4, right?)

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the 4x4 is not the same as the quad. the 4x4 is for the quasar/axar/pulsar; the quad is for the quark/quark ergo. the 4x4 does not have teeth at the top of the pick and has an angled first tooth like the cascade ...

[forrest_m]

TLG – ok, I did some homework, and you are right that the quad & 4x4 are not the same, however I can personally attest to the fact that the 4x4 does indeed have teeth up at the shaft end of the pick. well, not teeth, exactly, but a series of little spines that curve around in a half-circle. my understanding is that the quad & 4x4 are the same except for the pattern of attachment holes, but since I can’t find pictures on the CM website of the two, I can’t “prove” it, though I take the play-on-words of their names as strong corroborating evidence.

[IceIceBaby]

Thank you for the insight…I just ordered the quark with extra 2 cascade picks as my pure ice and mix tools I currently own the Rages and love them for general purpose and alpine but they just a tad too heavy

[thelawgoddess]

quote:

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Originally posted by forrest_m:

TLG – ok, I did some homework, and you are right that the quad & 4x4 are not the same, however I can personally attest to the fact that the 4x4 does indeed have teeth up at the shaft end of the pick.

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at the shaft end yes, but not on the top of the pick ... unless it's a feature on an older version of that model they don't make anymore.

 

the 4x4:

[forrest_m]

ok, that's wierd, because that picture does not look like my 4x4 picks. i'll have to bring in my spare pick and stick it on the scanner tomorrow, 'cause it has a curved flange with little spikes around the inside radius on the left edge of the picture you attached... you're probably right about them changing the design, (i bought my axars about 2 yrs ago), seems a shame because i'm thankful for those teeth every time i hook a big icicle...

[Lambone]

quote:

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Originally posted by IceIceBaby:

What is the difference between the Charlet Moser

Quad Pick

to the Charlet Moser

Cascade Pick

for the Quark, aside then the Cascade being 3 mm and the Quad being 4 mm

:-?

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one sucks more than the other one, I'm not sure which

[Paul_detrick]

[Retrosaurus]

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul detrick:

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DITTO:

 

[thelawgoddess]

the quad has top teeth "for stability while underclinging". also, the front tooth on the quad is a little more rounded than angled. and the quad is "t" rated (whereas the cascade is "b" rated). not sure if that has something to do with material. and not sure what else ...

[iain]

I think the "t" means it has passed the "technical" tool strength tests. Most vertical tool picks have this rating, symbolised by a "t" with a circle around it on the pick. Most standard ice axes do not carry this strength rating

[forrest_m]

the teeth at the top of the quad pick (also known as the 4x4, right?) are nice for hooking as well, especially when you are hooking your way up some picked out waterfall like IcyBC in february... they keep your tool from sliding sideways when you are hooking big rounded features (as opposed to drafting on pre-existing pick holes)

 

the cascade is thinner and supposedly displaces less ice, sticks better, less likely to dinner plate, more secure with less energy, etc. the "b" vs. "t" referrs to UIAA standards for breaking strength of the pick - being thinner, it doesn't meet the higher rating. i currently have one of each on my tools, but have only used them in alpine ice and i can't say i have noticed a big difference between them, but people i've talked to rave about the cascade for pure water ice.