snowboarders?

[mr._happy]

anybody out there backcountry board? if so, i'm just wondering what kind of gear you use/like/dislike...split boards, plate bindings, boots, etc.

or should i just learn how to tele instead?

[lizard_brain]

Tele takes five years to learn; boarding takes five days.

I gave up tele for boarding.

[bellemontagne]

I posted a message a while back asking for backsountry snowboard boot recommendations, and I received a lot of valuable comments. Do a search, and you will find some of the responses.

The one dilemma with using plastic mountaineering boots is that they are stiffer than normal snowboard boots. Their ankle is also not as high, so you have to put a little bit more effort into edging. It does seem possible to use them with hardshell step-in snowboard bindings. If you do use normal strap bindings, you want to be sure and use all metal bindings so the stiff mountaineering boots do not break the plastic bindings.

You probably would not want to use plastic mountaineering boots when boarding VERY VERY steep terrain on very hard snow, but they seem like they would be okay in powder. People I have heard from that use plastic mountaineering boots in some backcountry situations seem to be reasonably pleased with the setup. I will probably buy some plastic mountaineering boots because I will be able to use them for boarding as well as mountaineering. And for me, they are more comfortable than AT boots and walk better than damn snowboard boots. One idea is to rent plastic boots and try riding with them before you buy. Depending on where you live, you should be able to rent AT boots to try out too.

Alpine Touring Boots are very good at edging since they are taller at the ankle. And some people find that they walk and climb pretty well-for them. I tried some AT boots out, and they are WAY too stiff and uncomfortable for me. I would much rather use plastic mountaineering boots. A number of backcountry boarders I have spoken to DO use AT boots for the backcountry. Stephen Koch (a snowboarder/climber hoping to snowboard "The Seven Summits") uses Dynafit AT boots.

I do not own a split board and have not ridden one *yet*, but one thing is for sure, I will not head into the backcountry again without one. Snowshoeing in deep powder REALLY SUCKS. It's definitely no fun!. I have talked with people who prefer the Voile board over the Burton split board. I have heard the Burton board rides a little bit better, but it is not as durable, and the binding mechanism tends to ice up and can be a major pain. The Voile board is more durable and the bindings are easier to switch from ascending to descending mode.

K2 does make a hybrid hardshell/softshell boots that is compatible with hardshell step-in bindings as well as K2's clicker binding. They have substaintial welts, but I am not sure if they will fit into step-in crampons. I have only seen the boots in this season's K2 catalog, but I heard K2 recalled them because of some problems. Who knows? These boot might be the happy medium.

Hopefully next year I'll have some moolah to buy new bindings, boots, and *maybe* a split board. For now I am taking it easy boarding in bounds because of knee problems, but when things get better I'll be headed for the backcountry.

[imorris]

In my humble opinion, skis are much more conducive to the backcountry than snowboards. They are lighter, you can leave them on your feet to climb (no additional snowshoes, etc needed) and they aren't a giant sail/weedwacker when they are tied on your back. Granted, if you already snowboard and you want to enter the backcountry to board, then by all means board. But if you are looking for an all-around backcountry travel tool, and you might be doing some climbing too, I don't think skis can be beat. I just find myself constantly waiting around for boarders in the backcountry as they stop to put on their snowshoes or stop to split their board when they get stuck on the flats, or putting it back together again at the top of the hill. I would think this would be a pain in the ass to deal with all the time personally, but to each his/her own.

-Iain

[chris_w]

I can't say I've done a lot of backcountry but I did rent a Burton Split board from Cascade crags one weekend to test it out. The first night was at stevens pass on the groomed runs and it work great. I liked it better then my current board. I thought it would vibrate at high speeds but it was great. Then over the weekend I used it up on yodelin (sp?) ridge behind stevens in some deep snow. I have never used skins before so It was a learning expereince, but i got the hang of it and it seemed ok. It would take about 4 minutes to switch the board (not including skins). I thought the board worked good in the deep powder. I used the burton 165cm. I will probably buy the 170cm next year. Since I have nothing to compare it to, I think it worked great. I haven't figured out the boot combination yet. I used my regular snowboard boots on the trip. I'm not sure what I would do if I was going to try and climb something.

Chris

[charlie_don't_surf]

Skis are the most versatile tool in the backcountry--from travel, traversing,releasing in an avalanche,etc.

If you can ski all the terrain you want to tour, don't board.

If you can't ski it, but feel comfortable on a board, then stick with the board. this means check out split boards for access.

As for tele it is great, but they are not as efficient for touring, don't release in a slide and taking a deep knee turn with a heavy pack gets old quick. Plus side, two inches of fresh=face shots.

Just my take. Good luck. Have Fun.

[robertm]

I have used Tele, Split Board and a regular board in the B/C. The voile split with the crampons rock. The skins are wider and can climb much steeper slopes than a tele set up. For touring a split, tele or rande is the only way to go. (I use my SMG9s on my burton pro bindings... works fantastic). I am a much better boarder than a skier but I think the differences between a split set up and the tele are marginal. There may be some weight savings with a tele set up but you would be stuck with the boots which are less versatile.

[moron]

Lots of good comments here, can we spray now?

[lizard_brain]

quote:

---

Originally posted by lizard brain:

Tele takes five years to learn; boarding takes five days.

I gave up tele for boarding.

---

--And boarding is more fun.

[PDXClimber]

On recent trip to Tatoosh with 1 tele-skier and 2 randonee skiers and 1 snowboarder/snowshoer (me) we were able to make some comparisons.

Skis seemed faster for level, slightly downhill stuff and did not require additional weight of carrying board (while snowshoeing). One disadvantage of skis seemed to be extra time putting on skins and removing them. I found snowshoes to be better on steeper ascents than partners who were 'skinning' up the slope. The skiers in the group were a bit faster than me on the snowshoes, except for steep narrow trail descents.

I will always prefer the board in deep powder, although of course its a blast on skis, too. Board seems better for heavier, wet snow, but skis are better for truly steep, icy terrain. If I had the cash, I would probably get a randonee setup.

[slaphappy]

There are some good comments here although I do not agree with a few. I have been riding BC with plastic mountaineering boots for the last 6 years and would not trade them for anything. Snowboard boots do not cut it. I disagree with Bellemontagne's assesment of edge control while using plastic boots. I trust them on steep hardpack more than any other boot. They are a bit shorter and can cause some chaffing on the back of the calf after multiple runs but they hold an edge with relative ease on any angle. Do not try to use mountaineering boots with step in bindings! There will not be enough forward lean to maintain sufficient control. If you want to use step in bindings wear AT boots or hard shell snowboard boots.

I still use snowshoes over a split board. Yes, snowshoeing in deep powder can suck, but pick a steep direct line to the "top" and it can't be beat. I have ridden with people on split boards and only on mellow terrain do they have significant benefits over snowshoes. (The last guy ended up carrying his split board and post-holing up cause it was too steep to do switchbacks affectively; ski crampons would likely have helped on the traverses. I drank beer for an hour at the top waiting for him to show up, much longer and I wouldn't have been in any shape to make it back down.)

In my opinion the decision of whether or not to purchase a split board should be made by what terrain you will mainly be riding. If all the approaches are relatively short and steep, don't bother but if "touring" is what your after and not really the riding, by all means the split board is the way to go, touring is a term better used by skiers than snowboarders.

[mr._happy]

wow, lots of good replies here. so from reading the above responses and looking at bellemontagne's previous thread, i think the best thing for me is to find a pair of plate bindings and practice riding in my plastics. i won't bother to try learning tele until i have better access to snow and can practice regularly (hopefully in a year or so). thanks for all the info.

on a separate note, i'm waiting for your spray, moron.

[moron]

whewww, I don't think I could hold it anymore....

It doesn't matter whether you board or tele, you're gonna spend most of your time on your butt either way!

Oh man, I feel so much better now!

Lock your heel,ski for real!

Oh baby, that feels so good!

Drop your knee, squat to pee.

Ahhh, I feel muuuch better now. Thank you.

P.S. Go rando, it is the best of all possible worlds. Great deals out there right now too.

[lizard_brain]

I've tried one alternative to carrying the board, and that's attaching it to my pack with a long sling and towing it up like a sleigh. Doesn't work that great in real sticky snow, though. (Tug, tug, tug, tug...) Good for straight-up shots but absolutely sucks if you have to traverse.

[mr._happy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by moron:

whewww, I don't think I could hold it anymore....

It doesn't matter whether you board or tele, you're gonna spend most of your time on your butt either way!

Oh man, I feel so much better now!

Lock your heel,ski for real!

Oh baby, that feels so good!

Drop your knee, squat to pee.

Ahhh, I feel muuuch better now. Thank you.

P.S. Go rando, it is the best of all possible worlds. Great deals out there right now too.

---

ARRRGHHHH!!! thread creep!!!

[mr._happy]

sixteen. ten more to go.

[slaphappy]

Hey Mr. Happy

I seriously would reconsider plate bindings with plastic mountaineering boots, read my above post, they do not offer enough forward lean for you to control your heel edge turns. I doubt Bellemotagne has tried it or he would agree with me. Use metal baseplate strap bindings (some of the newer carbon composite bindings are probably strong enough if your looking to save weight) with mountaineering boots or if you feel you must use plate bindings, definately go with Dynafits or a like hardshell snowboard boot where you can adjust your forward lean or they are at least stiff enough to control those carves on wind-blown hardpack.

One thing to keep in mind with plate bindings, you will not be able to ride with a stance perpendicular to the board due to toe and heel drag. (unless you have really small feet and a really wide deck) The forward pointing stance required with plate bindings is great for carving on hardpack but not so great for most freeriding in the backcountry, it isn't as stable as a perpendicular stance with soft bindings.

I hope you can make sense of that, if not, PM me and I can explain it in further detail.

[ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: slaphappy ]

[mr._happy]

thanks for the info, slap. what you said makes a lot of sense. what strap bindings would you recommend?

[slaphappy]

I was using the Ride/Preston EX but I bent the baseplate on the front binding, so I picked up the new Ride/Preston Team bindings. The highback is a bit lower than the EX (which they still make) resulting in less chafing of the calf. The Team binding also has a carbon composite highback which is far stiffer torsionaly than the ejection molded EX highback. They also have some other fine tuning adjustments that I have found quite useful in dialing in my fit. The drawback is the price tag- $239.95. I managed to pick them up during a 50% off sale making the expense far more tolerable. I don't know if anyone is still running their spring sales but you might check it out. The EX would be sufficient as well at about $100 less. If I was to do a plastic composite I would go with the Burton top of the line binding (model?) They seemed pretty tough and oh so light. I remain a bit skeptical of the durability but was told they can handle some abuse. No deals there, they run well over $200 as well. Good luck, I'll keep my eyes open for any deals and post them if I see em.

[ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: slaphappy ]

[bellemontagne]

It sounds like Slaphappy has it right about the bindings. No, I haven't tried plastic boots with hardshell step-ins yet, but I have been meaning to borrow my friend's hardshell bindings and try them out. Maybe now I won't. I have heard from people who *say* they have used plastic mountaineering boots with step-ins, but now it makes sense that they would not work as well as strap/highback bindings.

BoardSports in Eugene was running a good sale on some metal Ride bindings (I cannot remember the exact model). I might just pick some up when I get my tax refund.

Thanks for the beta.