Bill Moyers: Reactionary Hatemonger...

[sk]

what caught my attention was that a Muslim woman was denied divorce by a judge in Germany because the judged noted that the her "culture" allows for a man to beat his wife, and then quoted a passage from the Koran.

 

what takes presidence here? the letter of the law, that clearly states that abusing your wife is against the law?

 

or that her friends and family tolerate it, so i guess you can do that.

 

does that mean if my society says i can rob banks then i wont got to jail for it there???

 

 

[joblo7]

somewhat ironic that we are being fed this 'hate islam' crap for fear they may rule us in a negative way. we are gw bush . we are the invaders of their countries. we steal their oil.we kill our own people. we have 800 bases in 110 countries. we are 'the' empire. our domination of the world is what we are afraid to lose.

[sk]

that is a serious problem. if there is a "bad guy" in a war any more... it is us. there was a point in time (world war II) when we kept to ourselves and didn't get involved until we had no other choice. now we are the political and economical aggressor (in many cases) all in the name of.... something.

 

this gives me a headache can we go back to talking about meaningless things now?

[archenemy]

what caught my attention was that a Muslim woman was denied divorce by a judge in Germany because the judged noted that the her "culture" allows for a man to beat his wife, and then quoted a passage from the Koran.

 

what takes presidence here? the letter of the law, that clearly states that abusing your wife is against the law?

 

or that her friends and family tolerate it, so i guess you can do that.

 

does that mean if my society says i can rob banks then i wont got to jail for it there???

 

Immigration only works when the immigrants adopt the rules and the language of their new country.

[dt_3pin]

Shoegazer emo is DEFINITELY going to change the world. Almost as much as black metal did.

 

Emos of the world unite!!!

 

 

[catbirdseat]

somewhat ironic that we are being fed this 'hate islam' crap for fear they may rule us in a negative way. we are gw bush . we are the invaders of their countries. we steal their oil.we kill our own people. we have 800 bases in 110 countries. we are 'the' empire. our domination of the world is what we are afraid to lose.

Dude, we have PLENTY to fear from Islam. I guarantee you that.

[joblo7]

THE ONLY THING WE NEED TO FEAR, IS FEAR ITSELF.'

 

islam is a peaceful religion.

 

terrorism is a white man's invention. you are being played.!! seek the truth....not in 'the media'

 

 

[rob]

islam is a peaceful religion.

 

Peaceful protest

[billcoe]

THE ONLY THING WE NEED TO FEAR, IS FEAR ITSELF.'

 

islam is a peaceful religion.

 

terrorism is a white man's invention. you are being played.!! seek the truth....not in 'the media'

 

 

 

You are truely and deeply displaying your igonorance of the subject V.

 

I suggest to start correcting this lack of intellect you are displaying, pick up (and read) Dore Golds book about 1 lil' branch of Islamic thought called Wahabbism. Which will explain to you why some Islamic scholars recommend killing others of differing Islamic belief (primarilly the followers of Ali, Shiia's) for being "non-believers and blasphemers" of Islam, which they consider a lower form of life than yourself and others of our ilk.

[billcoe]

It is a deep, complex, not easy to understand affair, but think of all the Christians you know. Now reflect on those comparisons 500 years ago and how differently and savagely different views were routinely dealt with.

 

Compare a Catholic to Protastant to a Mormon to a Fundamentalist preacher to get a start for a feeling on how crazy and complex it is for Muslims.

 

Now reflect on Christianity when Catholics were murdering and torturing Jews and Protestants in the 1500s to get a better feel for it for instance. Remember that "in 14 hundred and 92, when Colombus sailed the Ocean blue", it was a remarkably savage time marked by tortures unimaginable today for non-catholics in Spain with the Jesuits running crazy and blood running in the gutters on a mass scale. Then remember and contrast that to Christ's main pitch which was love, tolerance and "turn the other cheek" to get a feel for how off the rails sh*t can head.

 

Same trip for the Muslims.

[billcoe]

Note in support of Vir:

 

As far as Islamists stuffing their views down our throats as replacment for our democratic ideals. Turkey is having that discussion today on a national level.

 

The secularists appear to be winning. Suggesting and supporting that perhaps we have nothing to fear, just as V says.

 

At least till the Taleban shows up acting like the Jesuits of old. Then you will convert, shutup, or suffer.

[ashw_justin]

You are truely and deeply displaying your igonorance of the subject

But you're also being ignorant if you believe that all Muslims are violent radical fundamentalists.

Violent (human-rights-transgressing to be more accurate) radical fundamentalist [x] are the problem. Doesn't matter what 'x' is.

[archenemy]

He has not stated anywhere that he believes this. Furthermore, he doesn't sound like he is a one-dimensional thinker on the subject.

[ashw_justin]

What, I said 'if.'

[archenemy]

weak

[ashw_justin]

Well we wouldn't be having this discussion at all if people weren't continually confused by the difference between Muslim and theofascist. It's all in the execution. My neighbor has a right to believe that all men should be castrated, as long as they don't actually violate anyone's human rights to retain their jewels. And even then, it's not the belief that they should be condemned for, but the act. I'm not even sure why we are talking about Islam itself, except that it is a convenient (yet incorrect) jump in logic.

[archenemy]

The discussion is not based on clarification between different factions of the religion. And as billcoe very clearly stated, the intracacies within the Islamic religion are just as convoluted as those within Christianity. I think at this stage most folks have a grasp of that--even if their vehemence doesn't give them time to back up and state that.

 

About the right to believe as one will--sure, its hard to disagree with that. The problem is that ones beliefs are generally the basis for their actions (or at least I would hope so). If you are acting differently than what your belief system dictates, then you are actually coming very close to living up to that word most people misuse--a hypocrite.

 

NOw, I am not saying that it would be ok for your neighbor to cut anyone's balls off, but if she honestly, truly believed this, then she would need to lobby to have this passed as a law, or talk her male friends into getting a testiclectomy. Otherwise, she is just saying that this is how things ought to be without doing a fucking thing about it. And that is lame.

Edited May 24, 2007 by archenemy

[ashw_justin]

The difference between these hypocrites and ball-choppers is that only one would be violating human rights.

[archenemy]

please reread my post.

[archenemy]

especially this part:

 

NOw, I am not saying that it would be ok for your neighbor to cut anyone's balls off, but if she honestly, truly believed this, then she would need to lobby to have this passed as a law, or talk her male friends into getting a testiclectomy. Otherwise, she is just saying that this is how things ought to be without doing a fucking thing about it. And that is lame.

[ashw_justin]

Well I believe the men of the country could protect their rights to their manhood through conventional participation in representative government, by voting down any ballchopping legislation. Or if that wasn't possible, hopefully we could appeal to the judicial branch to protect our human rights. There are certain mechanisms in place to prevent a fundamentalist takeover.

[joblo7]

my biggest point is that islam intolerance is being power-driven by 'the media'. it is mediatised, packaged, simplified to offer the reader one solution;hate-distrust.

then the chest-beating-we white folks rule-crap starts.

 

 

its sole and only purpose is to induce fear. fear at all cost. fear made us APPROVE the iraq invasion. will make us APPROVE iran's invasion.islam is the 'new' source for our fear. no more commies. no more baby-eating saddam......fear allows ruthless rulers the freedom to conquer IN OUR NAME

 

[sk]

what caught my attention was that a Muslim woman was denied divorce by a judge in Germany because the judged noted that the her "culture" allows for a man to beat his wife, and then quoted a passage from the Koran.

 

what takes presidence here? the letter of the law, that clearly states that abusing your wife is against the law?

 

or that her friends and family tolerate it, so i guess you can do that.

 

does that mean if my society says i can rob banks then i wont got to jail for it there???

 

Immigration only works when the immigrants adopt the rules and the language of their new country.

 

thats kinda what i was thinking, but then does that make me a racist? or a countryist?

 

I was also thinking that i don't really give a shit what religion or culture they are talking about, but when people start violating other peoples human rights in a country where that is already on the law books as against the law... something is seriously messed up.

 

yet If i do indeed voluntarily partake in alternative love practices... well thats my business.

[ashw_justin]

Otherwise, she is just saying that this is how things ought to be without doing a fucking thing about it. And that is lame.

That explains radical religious beliefs pretty well, except I wouldn't call it lame, I would call it civil, assuming that the beliefs represented direct violations of human rights.

[ashw_justin]

my biggest point is that islam intolerance is being power-driven by 'the media'. it is mediatised, packaged, simplified to offer the reader one solution;hate-distrust.

then the chest-beating-we white folks rule-crap starts.

 

its sole and only purpose is to induce fear. fear at all cost. fear made us APPROVE the iraq invasion. will make us APPROVE iran's invasion.islam is the 'new' source for our fear. no more commies. no more baby-eating saddam......fear allows ruthless rulers the freedom to conquer IN OUR NAME

But we have always been at war with Islamia. WAR IS PEACE. IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.