archenemy Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 when the government provides my food clothing house and entertainment, MAYBE then they can tell me what to do. as long as my ass is working for a living i want the government to stay the fuck out of my business. I just want to point out here that your underlying belief system is that the one with the economic power is the one with the power to decide on who does what (as well as control the level of one's privacy, decision making, whatever). I am not saying this to provoke a defense--I actually believe the same thing. But I do think it is good to be aware of these beliefs/assumptions and call them out on occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 And I'd also like to say that I got the pagetop in this very serious discussion. So there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 when the government provides my food clothing house and entertainment, MAYBE then they can tell me what to do. as long as my ass is working for a living i want the government to stay the fuck out of my business. I just want to point out here that your underlying belief system is that the one with the economic power is the one with the power to decide on who does what (as well as control the level of one's privacy, decision making, whatever). I am not saying this to provoke a defense--I actually believe the same thing. But I do think it is good to be aware of these beliefs/assumptions and call them out on occasion. You are correct. It is part of my belief structure. Money=choice and choice=power. i am not saying that is right, it is just what i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 The question is which mistakes the government should have a right to forbid us from making. that is the part we do not agree on. the government can not stop us form making mistakes. it is law enforcements obligation to help us find our way to certain consequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 when the government provides my food clothing house and entertainment, MAYBE then they can tell me what to do. as long as my ass is working for a living i want the government to stay the fuck out of my business. I just want to point out here that your underlying belief system is that the one with the economic power is the one with the power to decide on who does what (as well as control the level of one's privacy, decision making, whatever). I am not saying this to provoke a defense--I actually believe the same thing. But I do think it is good to be aware of these beliefs/assumptions and call them out on occasion. You are correct. It is part of my belief structure. Money=choice and choice=power. i am not saying that is right, it is just what i think. I believe the same. I am just making a connection with another discussion you and I were having on another day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 i have friend who says there really only needs to be 3 laws. don't fuck with people don't fuck with other peoples stuff use your common sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 But I love fucking with people. Can we replace that one with Don't jaywalk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted May 17, 2007 Author Share Posted May 17, 2007 i have friend who says there really only needs to be 3 laws. don't fuck with people don't fuck with other peoples stuff use your common sense isn't these rules just a slippery slope though? - how long before The Man wants to shorten it to just "don't fuck"?!? the horror! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 don't fuck with people don't fuck with other peoples stuff use your common sense you can dance if you want to HcOZ6xFxJqg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 i have friend who says there really only needs to be 3 laws. don't fuck with people don't fuck with other peoples stuff use your common sense isn't these rules just a slippery slope though? - how long before The Man wants to shorten it to just "don't fuck"?!? the horror! If that happens then I need to repeal the no jaywalking law. I'd throw myself in front of a bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 The question is which mistakes the government should have a right to forbid us from making. that is the part we do not agree on. the government can not stop us form making mistakes. it is law enforcements obligation to help us find our way to certain consequence. Well I didn't say 'stop,' I said forbid, and by that I meant strongly discourage, through laws that deter choices that may have inarguably negative consequences. Like shooting someone, per your example. The government can't stop someone from pulling the trigger, but it can deter that by promising harsh consequences through law (except in special situations like self-defense). Do laws against shooting people result in less people being shot? I think they do, but I might as well expect some here to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 So now you're equating murder with recreational drug use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted May 17, 2007 Author Share Posted May 17, 2007 So now you're equating murder with recreational drug use? when i can't get my recreational drugs, i want to murder someone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 So now you're equating murder with recreational drug use? Comparing but not equating, but mostly because that was the example that Muffy gave. Yes they are vastly different and it's a stretch. I also think it's funny that this thread started about an amphetamine-containing plant that clearly poses no apparent threat to our society. And pot is even more benign. I've never seen a pot whore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Admittedly, I think the only way my fears will turn into reality is if they start letting things like this happen again. Legalization could be tantamount to marketization, which could have bad consequences given what can be done with something as benign as sugar. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Um, cocaine is a topical anesthetic. Using it for a tooth ache reliever is reasonable. Some people are stupid and get addicted to shit by taking too much all the time for no pain. Those who use drugs properly don't encounter this problem nearly as much as you'd think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 But you don't 'cure' a toothache by becoming addicted to a local anesthetic. You go to the dentist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 I agree with the problem of saying they are a "cure". We have dealt with this already and have outlawed making false claims. Is that what you are afraid of happening again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted May 17, 2007 Author Share Posted May 17, 2007 our government currently has rules restricting the marketing of drugs like alcohol and tobacco - why wouldn't these other drugs that should be legalized by subject to similiar restrictions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 I hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 our government currently has rules restricting the marketing of drugs like alcohol and tobacco - why wouldn't these other drugs that should be legalized by subject to similiar restrictions? I am not sure what your question here is. The FTC regulates marketing rules in all industries. So when it comes to drugs, the FTC watches claims no matter what. EVen the supplement and vitamin industry, which is not regulated by the FDA, is still regulated by the FTC. THis is not likely to change, so I am not sure what the concern we are talking about here is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted May 17, 2007 Author Share Posted May 17, 2007 our government currently has rules restricting the marketing of drugs like alcohol and tobacco - why wouldn't these other drugs that should be legalized by subject to similiar restrictions? I am not sure what your question here is. The FTC regulates marketing rules in all industries. So when it comes to drugs, the FTC watches claims no matter what. EVen the supplement and vitamin industry, which is not regulated by the FDA, is still regulated by the FTC. THis is not likely to change, so I am not sure what the concern we are talking about here is. the concern has shown up on several pages in this thread that legalizing drugs like pot and coke will lead to big business comercializing and promoting them through marketing - i was just saying that i don't think that's such a big concern, but there are already precedents for controlling that i kinda like the potential adds for marlboro blues or camel greens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 I'm following you now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 our government currently has rules restricting the marketing of drugs like alcohol and tobacco - why wouldn't these other drugs that should be legalized by subject to similiar restrictions? there are also rules laws and social standards regarding the use of tobaco and alchol that would also apply to other substances. i don't forbid my children anything. they know they CAN do anythign they want, they are geting bigger than i am. i inform them of what the consequences will be if they chose to do something that is not acceptable to our family code. it really is all in the language you use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 i have friend who says there really only needs to be 3 laws. don't fuck with people don't fuck with other peoples stuff use your common sense isn't these rules just a slippery slope though? - how long before The Man wants to shorten it to just "don't fuck"?!? the horror! If that happens then I need to repeal the no jaywalking law. I'd throw myself in front of a bus. me too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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