Water Bladders

[Colin]

The water containers that I have always used are of course Nalgene lexan bottles. However, I really like water bladders because they fit in a pocket much better, won't dig into your back through the pack, and don't take up space when empty. I have used Camelbaks in the past, but they don't work in the winter really because the hose freezes up. Platypuses would be good, if they didn't always break. I am considering buying a couple MSR Dromedary water bladders. Anyone used them, or have any other ideas?

[Peter_Baer]

IMHO using a bladder/hose combination in subfreezing weather is efficient only for relatively short trips. Obviously it helps to use an insulated bladder/hose, putting hot water in the bladder at the start of the trip, and threading the hose inside of your jacket if possible or wearing the entire thing under your jacket (although I don't find these latter two options very comfortable).

For me, using an insulated Camelbak with hot water usually works well for a shortish day trip... it's perfect for night skiing after work for example. Anything longer and I use one Nalgene filled with warm water (or tea, Cytomax, etc) for the first couple hours, and a second filled with boiling water at the start of the trip and put into an OR Nalgene insulator. The water in the insulated bottle will stay nice and toasty the rest of the day (esp. if you keep it in your pack), and by the time you're done with the first bottle it'll have cooled enough to drink without burning your tongue. Repeat if necessary, filling the empty first bottle with boiling water and insulating it. The insulator also allows you to use a Nalgene as an efficient hot water bottle in your sleeping bag at night.

Note that many bladders (certainly Camelbaks) will retain the color and/or flavor of whatever you put in it. This is harmless if you always put the same stuff in (mine is permanently stained yellow from using citrus Cytomax ) and make sure you dry it out well after use.

[philfort]

For any kind of mountaineering, water bladders suck IMO:

1) The hose freezes.

2) They leak

Water Bladder Proponents will say

1) "Not if you blow the water in the tube back in the bladder." I've never seen anyone keep this up successfully on a cold day. Instead, the tubes always freeze, they can't drink their water, and now they must drink yours. Happened on Lib Ridge last summer, right Marcus? :-)

2) "They don't leak" Well, I've never seen one crack or break, but the filling hole or the "sucking valve" always seems to pop off. A popped off sucking valve (not mine) cost me the North Ridge of Baker (am I bitter?? nah!!).

In fact, I seem to recall dbb having a leaking water bladder just a few weeks ago - was that on Mt Kent or something?

I think those things are great for around camp (like, the big MSR water bladders), or for mountain biking say, when it doesn't get hit against anything and you don't want to carry any clunky nalgenes.

In fact, I own an MSR bladder, and a camelbak. But I don't take them into the mountains. Instead, I generally take a couple of lexan Nalgene's, and keep one in an insulated 'cozy' strapped to my waist belt for quick access.

 

ok, enough ranting

Phil

[This message has been edited by philfort (edited 02-16-2001).]

[Colin]

Phil,

Why don't you take your MSR bladder into the mountains? It doesn't have a sucking valve (solves the leakage problem), and it doesn't have a hose (solves the freezing problem).

[rayborbon]

IMHO, they ALL freeze along the tube or along the mouthpieces when it gets cold enough. I have dubbed them as of I think it was November (early) while on a ski trip as only summer equipment. You may be setting yourself up for failure otherwise. I understand they are a great idea and have one myself although not the exact setup you mention Colin.. Trust me when it gets cold even your water bottles will freeze. If it is a short few hour trip you may get by though.

My opinion is that if gear fails once in winter then I can the idea because that is the difference between failure and success many times. I don't like to second guess my gear in winter, period.

Let me know if anyone has other experiences under trying (long periods of exposure to cold) circumstances.

The only thing I would guess that may remedy is carrying it close to your body to gather the necessary heat.

BTW I have the sucking valve and biting ones and they both have frozen.

-Ray

[This message has been edited by rayborbon (edited 02-16-2001).]

[dbb]

One good thing about your hose freezing is that it is sure to save a little water for later!

I've used a platypus for ~2 years and it is satarting to delaminate. After having the tube freeze on a not-too-cold day in winter, I stopped bringing it along except on summer day climbs. Also, the platypus head spontaneously unscrewed its self the last time I used it. Luckily I had drunk almost all the water already!

Though seriously, these things can be great. You are destined to be hydrated when using one under the right conditions. Also, if you have another, smaller back up bottle, it can be easy to refill. Sounds like the MSRs are a bit more durable too.

[nolanr]

I've been using a playtpus for about 1 1/2 years. It's great to temperatures right around the freezing point, after that the tube ices up and it's useless. It does seem to leak sometimes when I'm backpacking and I have my pack compressed a lot. Just the same, I'd rather have a potentially leaky water bladder that can freeze in cold temperatures, because like someone else said it almost guarantees you won't get dehydrated. When I have just Nalgene bottles I don't stop often enough to drink and commonly end up mildly dehydrated.

[erik]

i have the msr bags. i like it alot. kind of a cool chape really fits inthose akward places in the pack or on the out side. plus the mouth fits all water pumps. though on the downside the mirco drinking noozl leaks when it is full or near full and upside down. plus the micro drinking noozle get dirt in it. other then that i like it.

[Guest]

I've been using an MSR Dromedary water bladder for over 2 years for weekend-only rock, ice and alpine climbs. It hasn't leaked so far although I always pack it protectively. Takes boiling water, the little nozzle is useless, it must be taped down or you'll lose all the water, a drinking tube from MSR is available.

After using a water-pump with iodine the taste is always there after all these years.

Well worth trying.

No real solutions for freezing. I've tried carrying a Platipus under my outer shell and it works somewhat depending on the pack and the load. My wife sometimes carries the smallest Platipus bag in the inner pocket. So far the boiling water has been the best compromise. OR 'cozy' has been great when there was room for it.

 

[philfort]

In response to why I don't take my MSR bladder into the mountains: because it isn't convenient to drink from. Much easier to have a nalgene in a holder on my waist belt.

Also, the plastic cap has deformed a bit over the years, and it leaks a little now, and I've been too lazy to get another cap.

[Guest]

i have an msr 4l drom bag that i took with me to alaska for three weeks last may. if its really cold forget the drinking tube. what i like is that i can fill it maybe 2/3 full in addition to a single nalgene and refill the nalgene when needed or drink directly from the bag. you get much better output with the water spout accessory. it packs so much better than bottles. the real treat with these things in winter though(and the main reason i took it to ak) is that you can fill it with boiling water and throw it in the bag with you at night. cozy!!!!!! then when you wake up in the morning you have 4 liters of water to brew up with rather than having to sit around melting snow first thing in the morning. while i found having 4 liters of boiling water in a down bag in sub zero temperatures a little unnerving, i never had a problem. iv'e even sat on the thing and it didn't blow(luck?). i'm not sure it has a place though, if your objective is light alpine climbing, i usually just do the 2 nalgenes. but for expeditions they're great. i have a nalgene but it doesn't exactly instill confidence so i just use it for biking or summer use.

[Guest]

4L! Sounds like smth to try. Half full it'd pack even better and with less chance to be punctured by the "stray" gear stuffed in before the descend...

Putting in the bag sounds good too, I used as a pillow on Baker.

[gregm]

I use a large Nalgene bladder with the wide mouth in conjunction with the MSR drinking tube. I like it better than the Dromedry because it is easier to fill from a pot and you can see if iodine tablets have dissolved. I don't use it when I know it's going to be really cold.