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[Crux]

It ain't till it's

[mattp]

Fairweather:

 

The burden of proof, when we are talking about what we think of public figures, lies in WHAT THE HECK DO YOU THINK?

 

What the heck do you think? Were Clintonites guilty in the Vince Foster affair but Bushites not guilty in this mess? If I ran a search on this board, would I find where you've previously speculated about the guilt of someone not proven guilty?

[Fairweather]

I don't believe a grand jury was ever convened in the Vince Foster case. Open media speculation and political biting is not a felony. Disclosing the details of a grand jury proceeding is. But then, you know that. Why claim conspiracy/coverup when it's clear that the law is at work here?

[mattp]

Sorry, Fairweather. I'm not following. What are you saying? Is some speculation or even some disclosure of grand jury proceedings relevant to what I or you think about what Rove did or didn't do?

[Fairweather]

Re read the thread. It's simple enough. Foraker implied a "cover up" was involved in the lack of grand jury disclosure. I subsequently pointed out that grand jury rules prevent anyone involved from discussing the proceedings.

 

No one is claiming your right to speculate is wrong. Once again you are either not reading the "reply-to" lines properly, or have given up the argument to your muddy-water strategy.

 

BTW: Vince Foster committed suicide. Even his wife agrees.

[mattp]

Fairweather, I don't now about the "reply to" lines, but I distinctly got the impression you were replying to my post when you referred to Vince Foster in immediate reply to where I mentioned him. And I don't see where he was previously mentioned by any party to this thread. Silly me.

 

Carry on with your whatever.

[mattp]

Aha. Turn bout is fair play. You are "improving" your posts just as I am (I would say that I only edit for grammer and similar matters, not for actual content, and that you actually sought to strengthen your argument, but we could have a whole tangential debate about that, I'm sure). OK then, moving on...

 

What do you actually think Rove may have done or not done?

[Fairweather]

I think the Wilson/Plame team had an agenda and it was just plain stupid to send such a team to Niger. Obviously, someone was a little overzealous in disclosing Plame to the press. Robert Novak has claimed it was common knowledge. I don't know....and neither do you. Once again, a GRAND JURY has determined that there is not enough evidence to bring Rove to trial - and the standards are pretty low. It really doesn't matter what you or I think, but I don't think it's necessarily right to hysterically claim "cover-up" in the hope that the myth will become codified in the public psyche.

[Dechristo]

...I would say that I only edit for grammer and similar matters...

 

you might want to pick up the slack.

[Fairweather]

(I would say that I only edit for grammer and similar matters...

 

[Punter]

Matt and Peter P.

What about the centrifuge tubes?

[catbirdseat]

I think the Wilson/Plame team had an agenda and it was just plain stupid to send such a team to Niger.

Stupid in retrospect because of the facts discovered by the mission didn't support the administration's desire to invade Iraq?

[Fairweather]

Perhaps. But as I've confessed before - I don't really care about the bogus WMD reason put forth. There were plenty of others just as good...or better.

[Crux]

Today it was announced that 2500 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq. Also today, Republican Senators approved of amnesty for killers of American soldiers in Iraq.

 

Now, dear coward, how personally might you take it if such an open season were declared upon you?

[mattp]

Perhaps. But as I've confessed before - I don't really care about the bogus WMD reason put forth. There were plenty of others just as good...or better.

 

You apparently agree with the neocons who said they wanted to invade Iraq from day one of the Bush presidency, back when they were complaining that the outgoing Clinton folks were obsessed with terrorism and saying that we shouldn't engage in "nation building?"

[Fairweather]

Today it was announced that 2500 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq. Also today, Republican Senators approved of amnesty for killers of American soldiers in Iraq.

 

Now, dear coward, how personally might you take it if such an open season were declared upon you?

 

Coward? Pretty tough language there, sport. Now, maybe you could explain your claim. I see no such vote in the record - nor is it tucked into the suplemental budget just passed.

 

http://thomas.loc.gov/r109/r109.html

[Fairweather]

Perhaps. But as I've confessed before - I don't really care about the bogus WMD reason put forth. There were plenty of others just as good...or better.

 

You apparently agree with the neocons who said they wanted to invade Iraq from day one of the Bush presidency, back when they were complaining that the outgoing Clinton folks were obsessed with terrorism and saying that we shouldn't engage in "nation building?"

 

1 - Firing missiles on coalition aircraft patroling the no-fly zone in violation of the cease-fire agreement.

2 - Attempting to assasinate a former president of the United States.

3 - The post-gulf war/cease-fire agreement murder of over 600 Kuwaiti POW's.

 

Any of these acts justify our invasion, IMO. But I now honestly believe the reason for the invasion of Iraq is similar to the reason we became involved in Vietnam during the cold war - To demonstrate American power and resolve to our enemies post 9/11.

[cj001f]

A picture of our dear Fairweather:

[willstrickland]

Get a clue people, Rove is cooperating with the prosecution to save his own porcine ass.

 

Fairweather opines: "Once again, a GRAND JURY has determined that there is not enough evidence to bring Rove to trial "

 

FALSE. A grand jury has made no such decision, nor voted on an indictment. The prosecuter has declined to seek charges...for now.

 

From Time mag: "Luskin had just received a fax from Patrick Fitzgerald, the special counsel in the case, saying that he was formally notifying Luskin that absent any unexpected developments, he does not anticipate seeking any criminal charges against Rove."

 

Which indicates pretty clearly that as long as fat boy continues to cooperate in the Libby case, which has yet to go to trial, Fitzgerald won't burn his ass. Otherwise all bets are off WRT Rover's legal jeopardy.

[mattp]

But I now honestly believe the reason for the invasion of Iraq is similar to the reason we became involved in Vietnam during the cold war - To demonstrate American power and resolve to our enemies post 9/11.

 

That is a great reason to go to war and it is turning out really well. Fairweather for President in 2008!

[Peter_Puget]

 

What did you say Mattp? It was freedom of the press that gave me the rope I used to hang myself!

[mattp]

I'm not following you there, PP.

[Peter_Puget]

We will continue to be forced to speculate because the unprecedented level of secrecy, spin and manipulation of the press employed by this Administration gives us scant little "factual" information to go on.

[willstrickland]

Oh my, wingnuttia goes to the quiver and comes up with...Dan RATHER!

 

I can guess what's next: Clinton's cock, CLINTON'S COCK! The Clenis is clearly the reason Gee-Dumbya couldn't be bothered to finish his committment of defending central Texas from the Viet Cong. Clearly.

[mattp]

Still not following you.

 

Or maybe I am. The story that Rather got fried for was absolutely true. The document he waived in front of the camera was apparently a forgery, but the story it told was absolutely true. The White House did such a good job manipulating and distorting things that the main story that came out in everybody's mind was "Rather was biased" rather than "Bush shirked his duties."

 

Good point.