Who rap bolted steins pillar?

[retired]

Yeah Joseph I 've been leaving traces for a long time and my protection bolts placed number in high hundreds, but I've never placed one where any kind of natural pro could be used and the majority have been hand drilled on lead, (I have crossed over to the dark side in my old age however)I've tried to always ask myself if a route really needed to go where I envisioned and changed my m.o. from putting up death runouts to putting up routes where a competent climber won't die on a bad day I do disagree and think folks get way to serious about little issues involving climbing, there are true problems in the world, a few extra bolts on Steins Pillar isn't one of them. Waren Harding was always a bigger hero to me than Robbins.

[AFIVE]

Who is your friend? When did he put up the routes? Maybe I'll head back over there and check it out. I haven't been over there since I put up my routes and climbed with Chip on his new routes at the time.

[retired]

I won't list his name without getting his o.k. first but he works with Chip...or Chip works with him. The routes went up in the last two years, at least two of them I think. He's been trying to get me out there and this little thread is just enough to do it.

[JosephH]

I do disagree and think folks get way to serious about little issues involving climbing, there are true problems in the world.

 

Now that is a classic line of Dingus', but I just don't buy the line at all - by that reasoning we sh/wouldn't be climbing at all. And to be honest I typically see that line employed to justify an "anything goes" and an "I'm getting mine" approach by folks that have gone over as you said, to the "dark side". Again, nothing but respect for your history, climbing, your choices, and even the way you've set up your life, but this is something we'll have to disagree on. There will always be issues and problems outside of climbing - that doesn't negate the seriousness of the issues within the context of it once we decide that's where our time and energies are going versus somewhere else.

 

I'd also be curious to know if coming off the career you have of many life and death stories and experiences set the stage for a different perspective and a desire to just enjoy your retirement without too many concern for the 'details'? That's completely legit in my eyes too, not that you need my ok or approval for anything in or out of climbing...

[retired]

Perhaps, but with climbing if I'm not smileing, at least after the lead is over, I go home...or want to!

Smileing now, Jim

[billcoe]

I find myself often agreeing with Joseph.

 

But-

 

The only thing I've ever run into at Steins was Antelope and Deer.

 

Closest I've ever been to antelope in my life.

 

I think there still can't be many routes there now, and if you did grid bolt the place you still would not have many and people would rarely go there anyway.

 

As far as the bolting issue goes, it remains a difficult thing to reconcile. Perhaps climbing Angel Flight Buttress or something like that might help cure Joseph of the idea of dangerous runouts.

 

I know Jim is developing some stuff at Area 51 which involves bolts: personally, having seen 3 peope die, right in front of me near my fingertips, has swayed me a bit over to safety.

 

I am cleaning a route now, top down, common form in that area of loose blocks, moss and choss. I have shoveled about 1000 lbs of loose rock and dirt off so far and have the bulk of the loose stuff trundled, but it has a 3-4' inverted pyramid triangle shaped basalt block which is semi-loose. It would otherwise be a great hold. I know I could safetly lead climb it knowing that I can wrap my entire hand around the right side and pull straight down with all my body weight. I also know that a 20 lb straight out pull will yank it off, as will grabbing the left side of the pillar. I would not want the responsibility of the next person pulling that and killing their belayer and perhaps themselves too. It is high enough up that I can't see the entire ground area . It is too heavy to direct to a spot which is visible. So I left it for now and will get a spotter with a walkie talkie to make sure the area is clear before I cut it loose.

 

Sure, everthing doesn't have to be safe. However, do we not carry some resonsibility if another dies due to our choices and or lazyness?

 

I have changed in that way over time.

 

BTW, it doesn't matter if you are climbing 5.11 IMO, you still have a voice and a stake in it. Chouinard isn't climbing 5.11 or even close to it. I know for a fact that he can still pull the 5.8 on Nutcracker though. If Chouinard or Fred Beckey were to weigh in on this subject, would their voices not count now?

[JosephH]

Bill,

 

I think there is ample precedent for bolting at Rocky Butte and Broughton's both. I do agree if you are going to do a cleaning job at a place like RB then by all means do it right. Do we carry responsibility if someone dies run out on Snake Dike - I don't think so. And 'lazyness', hmmm - as in I didn't go out and proactively or preventively make some aspect of a crag safe when otherwise I wouldn't be out there at all? If that's what you mean, then no, I don't believe that either. I've done lots of run out stuff over the years, though probably not as much as Jim; it's not a matter of curing me, it's a matter of my and anyone else's choice to make or not. And I've lost two friends to climbing accidents so I do understand the consequences and the context when I talk about these issues.

 

The bottom line as I've said elsewhere several times is that if bolts disappeared tomorrow you'd see climbing as an industry collapse overnight losing I suspect about 70% or the folks who today identify themselves as "climbers". Again, I'm pragmatic, I understand it isn't going to stop. But as far as I'm concerned any suggestion that wholly bolted routes aren't the #1 reason and only reason people are climbing in the numbers they are today is utter nonsense. Pretty much every problem we face today is related to that drill-driven proliferation. Every time you put in a protection bolt you can be sure you're directly contributing to it.

 

As far as Stein's Pillar is concerned, my understanding was that it wasn't traditionally bolted, if that's wrong so be it, if it's suddenly being rap/grid-bolted as a new sport destination then I'd question the necessity and motive. Likely the reason would be to escape the crowds bolted lines attracted somewhere else would be my guess.

[billcoe]

Bill,

 

I think there is ample precedent for bolting at Rocky Butte and Broughton's both.

 

Actually, there is not much out of control bolting at either place, and it seems to still be a big issue for some at the butte.

 

 

I do agree if you are going to do a cleaning job at a place like RB then by all means do it right. Do we carry responsibility if someone dies run out on Snake Dike - I don't think so. And 'lazyness', hmmm - as in I didn't go out and proactively or preventively make some aspect of a crag safe when otherwise I wouldn't be out there at all?

 

I wasn't refering to you on the lazyness thing but to myself.

 

The bottom line as I've said elsewhere several times is that if bolts disappeared tomorrow you'd see climbing as an industry collapse overnight losing I suspect about 70% or the folks who today identify themselves as "climbers". Again, I'm pragmatic, I understand it isn't going to stop. But as far as I'm concerned any suggestion that wholly bolted routes aren't the #1 reason and only reason people are climbing in the numbers they are today is utter nonsense. Pretty much every problem we face today is related to that drill-driven proliferation. Every time you put in a protection bolt you can be sure you're directly contributing to it.

 

I don't think there is an arguement against that.

 

As far as Stein's Pillar is concerned, my understanding was that it wasn't traditionally bolted, if that's wrong so be it, if it's suddenly being rap/grid-bolted as a new sport destination then I'd question the necessity and motive. Likely the reason would be to escape the crowds bolted lines attracted somewhere else would be my guess.

 

Probably also true.

[ClimbingCowboy]

...Just a side note on Steins Pillar a few may not know about. According to Gale Ontko's "Over the Ochocos" series, the Shoshoni's regarded the pillar the spot where their people began and the whole Ochoco region as their Garden of Eden. I don't think that, as climbers, we'll have to contend with the religious aspects like Devil's Tower.

[corvallisclimb]

...Just a side note on Steins Pillar a few may not know about. According to Gale Ontko's "Over the Ochocos" series, the Shoshoni's regarded the pillar the spot where their people began and the whole Ochoco region as their Garden of Eden. I don't think that, as climbers, we'll have to contend with the religious aspects like Devil's Tower.

 

thanks for pointing that out

[shapp]

This has got to be one of the dumbest threads about oregon rock I have ever read. Steins will always be an obscurity due to its proximity to the vastly popular Monkey and Smith in general. Also, who ever did put the routes up had to climb another route to get to the top and rap/clean etc. A lot of work indeed. Its not like they just walked up to a cliff and tossed a rope over and started drilling like at so many other crags in Oregon. At least you Oregon climbers are talking about something other than 3 finger Jack, Washington, or Hood.

[corvallisclimb]

This has got to be one of the dumbest threads about oregon rock I have ever read. Steins will always be an obscurity due to its proximity to the vastly popular Monkey and Smith in general. Also, who ever did put the routes up had to climb another route to get to the top and rap/clean etc. A lot of work indeed. Its not like they just walked up to a cliff and tossed a rope over and started drilling like at so many other crags in Oregon. At least you Oregon climbers are talking about something other than 3 finger Jack, Washington, or Hood.

 

you just have to chime in an be a dick, in a thread that has acctually got some decent info thrown out there.

Edited October 25, 2005 by corvallisclimb

[shapp]

No, you started this thread. So you aught to be open to another long long time oregon climbers opinion of the routes. Of which the opinion is no big deal.

[shapp]

Also some more details on some of the bolted routes in the area: A few years ago a line to climbers left of the 5.10d dihedral was put up and it is called "Shasta's Spirit" it goes at 5.11d. To the left of that route down at the base is a 5.10a called Mass Wasting. Some other folks from Bend/Redmond are putting up some routes on the other formations near Steins. Money, whiskey, sexy is a three pitch route that goes at 5.9+. It follows a slab on the downhill side of the middle formation. Those guys also did a route called "Heat Stroke" that is reportedly in the 5.10 range and is located on the farthest formation away from Steins Pillar. In addition, an individual put up a variation to the original route for the first pitch. Instead of climbing the chimney, head downhill around to the right and locate a slab that goes up to a bulge. This is called "Rocket ride" and goes at 5.10a. This deposits you on the large ledge where the second pitch to the original line heads up.

[AFIVE]

I already mentioned these routes above in this thread. It is called Heat Stroke not Heat Wave, sorry for misnaming it above. I believe you have quoted me from another site that asked about Steins.

[shapp]

Actually, you misquoted yourself when you sent me the info last year and I have subsequently climbed all of these routes expect the 11d.

[AFIVE]

Sorry I don't remember sending you info on this site. And yes I mentioned that I got the name wrong in my earlier entry. Is it possible that we spoke in person about the pillar? I'm glad you put the info to use. I hope you liked the routes we put up. Have you added any routes to the area? Don't you agree that the time to get out there, and do the hike, is much more worth it now that there are several things you can climb in a days visit to the crag?

[shapp]

I may have spoken with you in person, I don't remember, and I also just made it out to the stuff on the deschutes by trout creek, great cracks. The routes at steins are good, but it was still worth the short hike for the adventure on the origional route before. I haven't put up any routes there.

[AFIVE]

What did you get on out there? I just onsited a new route out there last Saturday. I got some eye opening adventure above the roof when I was greeted by a stack of loose blocks at the top of the roof column! I put the anchors on the left side away from the big loose stuff. future ascents should be way clear of the dangers. Yet another killer ground up 5.10 at the crag.

[billcoe]

Gavin or Jason: any overview maps or directions of the locations of the routes/formations you noted below??

 

Also some more details on some of the bolted routes in the area: A few years ago a line to climbers left of the 5.10d dihedral was put up and it is called "Shasta's Spirit" it goes at 5.11d. To the left of that route down at the base is a 5.10a called Mass Wasting. Some other folks from Bend/Redmond are putting up some routes on the other formations near Steins. Money, whiskey, sexy is a three pitch route that goes at 5.9+. It follows a slab on the downhill side of the middle formation. Those guys also did a route called "Heat Stroke" that is reportedly in the 5.10 range and is located on the farthest formation away from Steins Pillar. In addition, an individual put up a variation to the original route for the first pitch. Instead of climbing the chimney, head downhill around to the right and locate a slab that goes up to a bulge. This is called "Rocket ride" and goes at 5.10a. This deposits you on the large ledge where the second pitch to the original line heads up.