Himalayan climbing... where do I start?

[wfinley]

Next fall (Sept-Oct) I am taking off two months for a climbing trip. At first my partner & I talked about doing a Canadian Rockies / Wyoming / Yosemite road trip but lately we've been tossing the idea of a Nepal / Himalayan expedition.

 

However... I have no clue as to where to even start looking for information on this. We would like to do a moderate peak (in the 21,000 range) with the usual glacier climbing, ridge - maybe a little low angle rock or moderate ice - who knows? Like I said - I have no clue. We don't want to do anything guided -- but don't have a problem with the more populated areas (as long as the route is good).

 

Can anyone suggest a resource where we can begin to get ideas of costs, permits, areas etc.. Web sites, books whatever. Thanks in advance.

[crazyjizzy]

I would get the book "Himalyan Alpine style", or "The trekking peaks of Nepal" by Bill O'Connor. The trekking peaks are fine objectives.

[iluka]

"Trekking Peaks of Nepal" is definitely a good resource to start your planning. You may need to do some poking into the political situation as you plan your trip as it would best be described as "not ideal" right now. The Maoists have created quite a few problems over the past few years and the problem only seems to be getting worse. Last I heard they were a factor in most areas of the country but had still not made it into the Solo Khumbu where the military maintains a heavy presence in the villages of Lukla and Namche that has kept them out. Climbing outside the Khumbu might be difficult to arrange as a result. Fortunately, there are some nice climbing objectives in the Khumbu as well. Island Peak is a very popular and, at times, overrun peak. Not sure if it would be as technical as you would like. Lobuje East is a nice objective. Two other peaks that are just beautiful and might make for some great climbing if you're skills are up to it would be Cholatse and Taboche but I think they are high enough that they might be out of the "Trekking Peaks" category and, as a result, be subject to higher climbing fees. Good luck... it's an awesome place.

[Tom_Sjolseth]

I agree with crazyjz' suggestion to get Trekking Peaks of Nepal. There are some great peaks in there that make very worthwhile objectives.

 

Plan to spend a month to a month and a half or so total . Climb some of the lesser trekking peaks (some are actually quite technical, depending upon the route you choose) before embarking on something more 'major'. This will allow you plenty of time to acclimatize properly.

 

I went in there in 2004 and climbed Gokyo Ri, Lobuje East, traveled over Cho-La and Kongma-La passes, climbed Island Peak, then trekked to Pangboche, then to Ama Dablam basecamp and climbed Ama Dablam. I was happy with what I got to climb, and felt sufficiently acclimated by the time I went above 20,000' spending 2 weeks all above 16,000' before I even got on Ama Dablam.

 

The problem with going as a group of two is cost. The cost of climbing some of the major peaks (including some of the trekking peaks) is sometimes prohibitive if you aren't part of a larger group. My advice would be to get on someone's permit (such as Henry Todd) who already has a large group or groups going in. This will cut your costs signifcantly. Do a search on the internet for people who guide up there and e-mail them and ask them if you can reserve a spot on their permit. Remember, the costs add up after you consider garbage deposit (US$2000 - refundable), liaison officer ($US2000 - non-refundable), and peak fees (variable). Each peak has a different fee depending on how tall it is. Also, factor in costs for porters (which you will need if you are doing any kind of technical climbing) and stays in tea houses along the way or for cooks if you so choose.

 

Above all, plan for all contingencies ahead of time. It is the small things (such as knowing where to buy fuel for your cookset, and trail food) that can make or break your expedition. Good luck!

[wfinley]

Thanks for the info everyone! I'll pick up the book. A couple quick questions: As a general rule of thumb - is one year out too late to start planning a trip like this or am I giving myself an adequate amount of time? Tom_Sjolseth: did you plan your itinerary yourself or did you tag onto other permits like you suggested? And finally - regarding getting on someone else's permit - Does this mean you become part of their guided party, or does it mean you're just climbing the peak the same time as them?

[Tom_Sjolseth]

I started planning the trip about 5 months out. I was fortunate enough to get onto someone else's permit, which can sometimes be tricky. The guides are all trying to fill their permits to max so they can get the most clients in there for the lowest price. However, many of the guides will inevitably not be able to fill their permits to max so it helps them to add you to their permit (there are like 8 people to one permit). You would not be part of their guided party, but you would have to be off the mountain on the same date or before they would be, and you cannot arrive on the mountain before them (which is generally not a problem with guided climbs because many of the guided climbs acclimatize on the mountain -- if you're already acclimatized, you can climb Ama Dablam in 3 days - or faster - from BC). Also, some folks get freaky about this sort of tactic because of the liability involved, but some are OK with it. It definitely can't hurt you to ask.

 

I would also suggest hiring someone to take care of the logistics for you in KTM as well as to assist you with the hiring of porters in Lukla. I went through Sherpa Shangri-La Treks & Expeditions for assistance in finding porters, and they were awesome. KTM is an overwhelming city if you've never traveled there before, and not a lot of people speak English (until you get to Thamel, the tourist district). It helps to have someone (such as a Sirdar) who speaks Sherpa Language with you when you get off the plane in Lukla. You'll see what I mean when you get there. It will be cheaper for you in the end to pay a Sirdar that you can trust to tag along with you.

[mattp]

You have to have a "guide" to climb one of the permitted peaks, and I think this includes the "trekkers peaks" like Island Peak or Thorong Peak, and some of the moderate but slightly higher peaks like Baruntse. I've been there twice, and I would not really recommend either of the guide outfits I contracted with, but the fact is I had two GREAT trips. The first time I just went to Kathmandu and met some people on a message board in the trekker district (Thamel) and we hired somebody on the spot. The second time I booked "over here" and it was all pre-arranged before I left Seattle.

 

If you are excited by the prospect of climbing some big mountains and if you think travelling in an exotic land with wonderful people and meeting travellers from all over the world who are also excited to be there sounds cool, you'll have a great time! Maybe the Maoists have caused trouble for trekkers in some of the lesser travelled regions and perhaps the great value this year is not where it was last year - take whatever advice you get and put it to use - but don't worry: it'll be incredible.

[wfinley]

Thanks to all who responded and contact me. I now have a starting point to aid in in planning. To anyone who stumbles across this thread in the future below are some links that I found helpful:

 

Project Himalaya: not organized particularly well but lots of photos and some info to aid in figuring out where to go:

http://www.project-himalaya.com/index.html

 

Nepal Mountaineering Federation: browse this site to get an idea of the red tape you'll have to navigate.

http://www.nma.com.np/

 

How Do I Climb the Trekking Peaks of Nepal?: a good article along with a few other FAQ pages to help the totally clueless.

http://www.hec.org/info/faqs/climb.htm

 

Map of peaks: this gives an overview maps with links to pages with more info.

http://www.visitnepal.com/getaway/nepal_peaks_climbing/peaks_map.htm

 

Thanks again!

[dewey73]

It looks like you're finding the right info, but I just wanted to put in a second recommendation for Sherpa Shangri-La Treks. I did a trip with them, climbing 3 trekking peaks with quite a bit of logistics, a couple years ago and they were terrific and I believe are very open to arranging from just porters to a fully equipped outing depending on what you want. Good luck and have fun.

[wfinley]

It looks like you're finding the right info, but I just wanted to put in a second recommendation for Sherpa Shangri-La Treks.

 

A number of people have recommended specific companies / individuals. Is there a directory of trekking companies like this or should I just google individuals (I found Sherpa Shangri-La via google at http://www.shangrilatrek.com)? Also - dewey if you don't mind my asking -- how much did you pay? For all my research into this I still don't an idea how much I'd spend outside of airfare.

Edited October 5, 2005 by wfinley

[dewey73]

If you look at the NMA site at their associate members http://www.nma.com.np/asso_member.htm most are trekking/climbing companies and that is likely the most comprehensive listing of companies you will find, otherwise google. With regards to payment, it's really subjective and depends on what you want to do. We designed our own itinerary for a small group of friends for over 30 days, climbing 3 trekking peaks and crossing 2 major passes, with basically everything included, except flights in and out of Lukla and various tea house meals and stays. My memory is somewhat suspect, but I believe that it averaged out at around $200 - $250/day. However, that price could change drastically depending on itinerary, inclusion of food, equipment, etc. It really depends on what you want to do and what support you are expecting. Hope that helps.

[mattp]

The cost definitely depends on what level of services you want, and what sort of itinerary you select - including what category your peak is in and thus what the peak fee adds up to. If you are travelling "backpacker style" and looking to pinch pennies, I bet you could easily do it for less than $50.00 a day including food, lodging, a peak fee and a short term "guide" if needed for the peak permit.

[wfinley]

Thanks dewey & mattp - the members link on the NMA website totally escaped me. We're basically looking to be as cheap as possible; to haul our own gear, eat ramen and yak steaks and if possible climb without a guide... as I get more info and talk to friends who have been there I'll probably post more specific questions.

Edited October 5, 2005 by wfinley

[griz]

you can check out

 

summitclimb.com

 

i have a a couple friends who have used them and think highly of them. i'd just start emailing one of these places and start getting quotes. fuck dinking around on cc.com, ya know? they are happy to help and take your money later down the road.

 

you can do a basic service climb on ama dablam through summit climb for $1500. That's everything except guides on the climb and you take care of yourself. might want to look at that climb...rock,ice, steep snow and not too high.

we are hitting it in spring '07. it's quite a deal.

 

they can get you permits,porters ect for your own climb too.

[wfinley]

summitclimb.com

Thanks -- as for cc.com -- I never would have found these links without you guys posting.

[griz]

absolutely. i just meant you can get a quick handle of costs with a quick email to these guys.

[dewey73]

I would definitely do as griz suggests and start contacting a few places after you have an idea of what you want to do. You'll likely get very different quotes from the places and you can start selecting from there. Some were super cheap, but once we got to the details we quickly realized they weren't what we wanted for our trip although it might work for you. This is where we weeded out other companies, based on quickness and ability to reply and meet our requests. If your experience is like mine, you will soon sort out which companies you would feel comfortable with and those that aren't worth spending any further time on.

 

As far as carrying gear and getting around, I would suggest at the least hiring a porter or two through a company. They can make your trip much more enjoyable by carrying your heavy boots, ropes, axes, etc. on your way to your climbing destination and really make the experience easier for you overall in getting accomadation in the teahouses, arranging for food, and introducing you to the culture generally. You could find porters at the airport in Lukla when you arrive, people will mob you for business, but I know that Sherpa ShangriLa has arranged to have porters that they know waiting for you there with the price and everything pre-arranged, including permits. I'm sure other companies could do the same. Takes some of the fun out of bargaining at the airport, but I just believe having that set out ahead of time definitely takes some of the worry out of it working out.

[wfinley]

You guys rock. If you ever need beta on local peaks, fishing reports, ski conditions or wild nightlife around Anchorage PM me and I'll steer you in the right direction!

[RocNoggin]

I would also recommend SummitClimb.com. while I havent used their services, yet, I do know the owner, Dan Mazur (who is currently in Nepal climbing Ama Dablam), and he has a great attitude about helping others and is also very flexible in the trips that they run. you will be on their permit and customize your trip to use, or not use, their tents, cooks, porters, guides, etc. but one thing they will have onsite that is a great option to take advantage of is the gamow bag, to treat altitude emergencys. check them out, and as others have said, just start talking and asking questions of the guiding operations and see what they tell you. good luck!

[wfinley]

Here is a related but not necessary on topic question: I am a fairly experienced climber and feel quite comfortable trying some of the 6000+ meter peaks in the Himalayas. I've been above 16,000' five times and feel like my body adjusts fairly well to altitude. However... this trip will be a honeymoon for me and my fiancee. My fiancee is a strong climber and very eager to learn more and push herself. We have done a lot of the local peaks together and this past spring / summer she did a trip into the Chugach and a trip to the Tetons and climbed quite well. We are planning a trip somewhere this spring (either into the Ak Range or Delta mountains) to try a peak around 13,000' - however this means we'll be heading over there without foresight of how she does at altitude.

 

What's your take on this? Should we focus our spring trip on altitude alone and try to get up something bigger (like Orizaba) or should we focus on skill level and deal with the altitude when we get there with the realization that we could quite possibly be shut down early?

[RocNoggin]

altitude can be such a crap shoot that trying something big, like Orizaba, may or may not really tell you anything. I have been to 14,000+ several times without complications but on two trips to Mexico I have had split results. if you go to Orizaba before Nepal and she does well that really doesnt mean she will do well in Nepal, and likewise if she faired poorly in Mexico it doesnt mean you will have the same result in Nepal. my advice: climb the peaks now that have the most appealing routes to you and when you get to Nepal take your time aclimatizing.

[mattp]

Yup, RocNoggin is right. One may do well on some trips and not others. The Orizaba climb would not be a good "predictor" nor would it offer any training advantage or acclimitization benefit.

 

In my own case, I acclimated well the first time and ran right up to 21,000' feeling pretty good. The second time I was sick from the get-go, and never acclimated at all. If you place a priority on getting high, you may wish to spend extra $ on a trip that will include fancier accomodations in Kathmandu and which minimizes or avoids eating local food and staying in the cheap teahouses - at least on your way TO the peak. Lung infections and some variety of food poisoning or other water-borne trauma are a big time threat. You will miss lots of the cultural experience if you chose this route, but you may increase your chances of feeling good at high altitude.

 

I should add that the trekking experience alone, apart from the climbing opportunities, is among the best of any travel/vacation I have ever done. I'd say it ranks right up there with the south of France as a place where you could go on your honeymoon and have a great experience that the two of you can share as a couple -- as long as you aren't looking for everything to "work" and you and she are truly excited about being there.

[dewey73]

Agree with the above statements, you could be feeling terrific on Orizaba or something even bigger and still not have it work out in Nepal. It really is a case by case thing. On that note, I would take diamox with you just in case. You should be able to pick up a prescription for it here and it gives you a little more room for error on your acclimation schedule. Just be sure that you are not allergic to sulpha products as I believe it is a sulpha based drug. Ask your doctor to confirm. It came in handy for a couple of people on our trip and likely allowed them to complete the trip rather than bail at an early point.

 

I agree that the trekking experience is incredible in its own right and depending on the peaks you pick, may be more exciting and rewarding than the peak experience. Take your time getting to the peaks to acclimate and enjoy the hiking because it really is astounding scenery and that should go a long way to helping you make the summit(s).

[Gurkha Encounter]

[edit]Please no advertising in the forums...

 

1st warning...[/edit]

Edited November 1, 2010 by snoboy

[Teh Phuzzy]

my threads (for tracking purposes)

 

thanks for the info!