Lance back in the Lead with col du Galibier next..

[cj001f]

And what evidence do you have that suggests this?

We all thought Tyler was legit before he got caught.

[b-rock]

Dru's on crack.

 

Doping exists in every sport. Controls in the Olyimpics and in Cycling are far stricter than any other sport. I suppose you could speculate 'Lance has the best doctors'. I think it has everything to do with preperation and a strong team. The Tour is nothing like it was 15 years ago.

[selkirk]

There are still worthy athletes in every sport. (Cal Ripken, comes to mind, but didn't he retire?) However they're just not newsworthy, it's the a-holes and roid monkey's that get the spotlight.

 

Besides, even if he is juiced (which is seriously debatable, as he may well be the most chemically scrutinized athlete history), the elite field is still level, since

he must first be doped up to their level

[Dru]

in other words, if everybody is cheating, then cheating is OK?

[Cobra_Commander]

yeah and what did you have to say when they found mother teresa's stash? like all those trips to pakistan were for humanitarian reasons. fact is, she was dealing the chronic.

[Dru]

Interesting argument, but how many people are climbing 5.14s today. A whole heck of a lot more than there was 10 years ago. The playing field is not so level, it just keeps getting higher and higher. 10 years ago, climbing 5.14 was news worthy. Today you have to be 8 years old to make news climbing a 5.14. How many of these people who climb 5.14 are climbing that due to natural talent. If we use your argument, not many of them. So, for Sharma and Graham and a few others to be climbing 5.15, they must be doping right? They do this to stay ahead of the pack, stay in the news to get their sponsership. I don't think so.

 

However, I might just be hoping that there are true sportsman out there. What I have read and seen about Armstrong and cycling, is that he has more sportsmanship than anybody in the standard three pro sports here in the US (basketball, baseball, and football).

 

but since people can climb V10 and 5.14 after just a couple of months of climbing if they train hard, what incentive is there to use drugs? there are few other sports where the level of overall competence among professionals is so low.

[b-rock]

And what evidence do you have that suggests this?

We all thought Tyler was legit before he got caught.

 

Yup. And they should continue to test Lance. They keep samples for years and years, so they can go back and test a sample from his first Tour when new testing methods become available. If he tests positive, I'll beleive it. That its some big conspiracy theory that Lance is in cahoots with the testing orgs... whatever.

[Dru]

How many other athletes give money to the organizations trying to bust them?

[jon]

David Walsh is a sack a shit, and he was before he wrote the book.

 

I think it's really sad that any athlete at the top of their game get accused of cheating/doping. I'd love to see anyone here survive a week of training like these guys do, you would just fucking die. And that whole physical thing, dude they visited him in his hospital while he was almost dead and they wanted him to take a physical, it wasn't about the money you fucking idiot it was about the pricipality of the matter! Half of marriages in the US end in divorce, but apparently pro athletes who travel all around the world who's marriages fall apart get accused of dumping their wife. Get real!

[Dru]

I'd love to see anyone here survive a week of training like these guys do, you would just fucking die.

 

So therefore, because they train a lot, it's OK for them to dope?

[jon]

Have fun talking with yourself Dru.

[mec]

What I have read and seen about Armstrong and cycling, is that he has more sportsmanship than anybody in the standard three pro sports here in the US (basketball, baseball, and football).

The same Lance who slammed his former team, because they asked him to take a physical before they'd pay his salary. The same Lance who preaches loyalty, but dumped his wife for Sheryl Crow after 3 children. It goes on. The guys no saint, as much as the US press loves to treat him like one.

 

At the same time, Lance gave all of his tour de france winnings to his team for doing so well. He did not dump his wife, they got a divorce and who really knows the reasons why (how many people in this country get divorced, isn't the rate over 50% nowadays, and many of them have children too). I agree that no one is a saint, but Lance stands above most.

[cj001f]

And that whole physical thing, dude they visited him in his hospital while he was almost dead and they wanted him to take a physical, it wasn't about the money you fucking idiot it was about the pricipality of the matter!

jon-

that's bs

"Armstrong's recovery was genuine, and he was clearly impatient to get back on the career track from which he'd been so rudely derailed. But he had another, equally compelling reason to return to his bike: his Cofidis contract. He still hadn't ridden for the team, and as the 1997 racing season began, team officials wanted to know whether they could count on him. Armstrong's agreement with Cofidis was subject to a medical examination he had yet to take when he was diagnosed with cancer. Now Cofidis asked that he be examined by its doctors, a not unreasonable request, especially considering that the company was paying Armstrong $1.25 million a year. But Stapleton would have none of it. "They forced our hand," Stapleton contends. "No way were we going to let them subject Lance Armstrong to a medical examination in front of the world. At the end of the day, we struck a deal. If Lance didn't ride in four races in 1997, they had the right to terminate his contract.""

http://outside.away.com/magazine/0498/9804lance_4.html

 

 

Why is it sad when someone gets accused of doing what everyone else is doing? Oh, because he's our hero

[mec]

Isn't it amazing that all of the real facts shows that Lance is in the right, and all the naysayers just put him down because he is so good but have no facts to back it up.

[Dru]

What facts? Got any?

[mec]

no positive drug tests, that is a big fact right there.

 

Where are your facts?

[cj001f]

no positive drug tests, that is a big fact right there.

Vireque, Pantani, Hamilton never tested positive until the end either. Neither side has any "proof", the only facts that exist are that he hasn't failed any of the current tests, which don't prove he isn't a doper.

[mec]

I guess we can just wait and see. In the end, even if he still tests negative I am sure there will be many people out there with doubts in their minds. I won't be one of them.

 

Go Lance!

[Dru]

Absence of falsification does not verify.

 

It would be more precise to ask yourself - 1) are these drug tests 100% accurate, 2) are the people performing these drug tests biased in any way (like for instance do they know the person they are testing just gave them a bunch of money), 3) which evolves faster, doping or testing? As long as doping evolves faster than testing there will always be treatments that cannot be detected because no one knows to look for them.

[mec]

Do you think all athletes that are on top of their game are dopers then, whatever the sport? (cycling, olympics, basketball, climbing, etc.)

[cj001f]

Do you think all athletes that are on top of their game are dopers then, whatever the sport? (cycling, olympics, basketball, climbing, etc.)

It certainly seems most are now. Baseball is proven, football, soccer, olympics(track and field), a good portion of cycling(see prior scandals), even autoracers - one estimate has 1/3 of the F1 starting grid on cocaine.

[b-rock]

"As long as doping evolves faster than testing there will always be treatments that cannot be detected because no one knows to look for them. "

 

But they continue to test samples that are over 10 years old with the latest-greatest testing methods, still no positives.

[jon]

no positive drug tests, that is a big fact right there.

Vireque, Pantani, Hamilton never tested positive until the end either. Neither side has any "proof", the only facts that exist are that he hasn't failed any of the current tests, which don't prove he isn't a doper.

 

Virenque retired last year, he tested positive like 9 years ago in the Festina scandle! Pantani to my knowledge never tested positive although he did die from a cocaine overdose Tyler, well that is a different story.

[Dru]

According to Stevie Haston, most of the top Euro comp climbers take drugs... Sharma failed a drug test although weed is not performance enhancing.. a Squamish local told me Peter Croft used to snort lines before soloing... no one is pure Hell even Beckey tanks up on "Ensure" ever since they sponsored him.

[Cobra_Commander]

Mallory was jacked up on marmalade and weetabix