Ways to Prevent Extension When Using a Cordellette

[catbirdseat]

The most common way to use a cordellette is to draw all the legs from each piece of pro together and tie a figure eight knot, creating a "power point" that becomes the tie in point. If one leg were to fail, there would be no extension. The load trasfers to the remaining legs.

 

A friend of mine showed me a different way of doing things. You first set up the cordellette like a sliding X, by introducing a twist on each of the inside pairs of cord. Then, you tie a clove hitch to the carabiner attached to each piece of pro. If any one piece fails, there should be no extension. Because of the clove hitches, the anchor doesn't redirect itself automatically the way a Sliding X would, but it seems to me that it would redirect to a small extent because of slight give in the clove hitches, etc.

 

Anyone care to comment on the pluses and minuses of this method? The first thing that comes to mind is that it takes longer to set up.

[iain]

why mess with something that works

[catbirdseat]

How about boredom, curiosity, and always looking for a better way of doing things?

[David Trippett]

Protože máme dva kvadratické nerozložitelné faktory, dosazovací ?i zakrývací metoda nic nedá zadarmo. Mohli bychom se dosazením dostat k rovnicím, ale vzhledem k tomu, že ve faktorech chybí y jako takové, roznásobení bude lehké a proto jej použijeme:

 

Edited April 26, 2005 by avitripp

[iain]

you could no longer shelve climbers or yourself above the fig-8 knot.

[Blake]

why mess with something that works

 

Because the standard cordelette setup takes a lot of cord, creates a huge bulky knot, is tough to truly equalize/keep the cord from all pieces tight, and is worthless when the direction of pull changes from the originally direction even a small amaount.

[iain]

Did you know square-wheeled bicycles are ridable on the right track? It involves a series of catenaries.

[kurthicks]

You can also use a multi-directional (self-equalizing) configuration by tying overhand knots in each arm of the cordelette to limit extension. it does not eliminate potential for shockloading, but rather minimizes it. That way you still have a multi-directional anchor allowing for true equalization, something that a pre-equalized (mono-directional) anchor usually lacks.

[catbirdseat]

I know about that trick. Let's focus on the clove-hitch method.

[chris_w]

sounds like it would work. The clove hitch might be a little more awkward to tie on the biner and get them equalized, but you could adjust them afterwards. I would think it was be a little more work and then you don't have a spot for your 2nd to clip into if he wasn't leading the next pitch.

 

Might come in handy if you don't have that much cord to make a figure 8.

 

Chance of using: .2%

[iain]

blake - what do you use in its place

 

[specialed]

You don't have to clove hitch shit. Magic X format works with 3 points, just use two twists instead of 1. I use only this system, rarely using the figure 8 - which is dumb b/c you need like 20 feet of tat and it doesn't automatically equalize when direction is shifted.

[catbirdseat]

Sure, there is a place for your second to clip into. The Power Point still exists, it just isn't defined by a knot. He would have to clip in through the same strands that your original tie-in locking carabiner was placed through.

[iain]

specialed - you are sketchy and going to die

[catbirdseat]

You don't have to clove hitch shit. Magic X format works with 3 points, just use two twists instead of 1. I use only this system, rarely using the figure 8 - which is dumb b/c you need like 20 feet of tat and it doesn't automatically equalize when direction is shifted.

Right, but the Magic X format is subject to extension if any of the pieces fail. Extension can shock load the system in a way that might cause the remaining pieces to fail.

[specialed]

specialed - you are sketchy and going to die

 

You have a firm grasp of the obvious.

[iain]

Sure, there is a place for your second to clip into. The Power Point still exists, it just isn't defined by a knot. He would have to clip in through the same strands that your original tie-in locking carabiner was placed through.

 

I find that gets messy if you are using a reverso to bring up some seconds.

[iain]

but whatever, do what you want.

[specialed]

You don't have to clove hitch shit. Magic X format works with 3 points, just use two twists instead of 1. I use only this system, rarely using the figure 8 - which is dumb b/c you need like 20 feet of tat and it doesn't automatically equalize when direction is shifted.

Right, but the Magic X format is subject to extension if any of the pieces fail. Extension can shock load the system in a way that might cause the remaining pieces to fail.

 

Theoretically. But if you have three decent pieces that ain't gunna happen. And if the other two pieces are even pretty good, minor "shock loading" isn't going to matter.

[kurthicks]

The Power Point still exists, it just isn't defined by a knot. He would have to clip in through the same strands that your original tie-in locking carabiner was placed through.

 

You can also have a Master carabiner (a big locker) that everything gets clipped in to.

[David Trippett]

m

 

Edited April 26, 2005 by avitripp

[iain]

haha you found it, I happened to go to Macalester College and he was a prof of mine.

[Alpine_Dreamer]

I usually use an overhand rather than a figure 8 to tie off the cordellette - takes less webbing. The only downside I can think of is it might be harder to untie after a hard fall, but it's yet to be a problem for me (maybe cause I'm using spectra so it slides easier?). Are there other reasons to not use the overhand?

[specialed]

What a sweet bike. That would be perfect for riding on all those catenary roads we have in the northwest.

[iain]

yeah they are everywhere in Minnesota.