30m (randonee) roped glacier travel??

[bts]

so---what is the proper technique for using a 30m rope for glacier travel in a team of two?

 

the best i can figure is that the team of two kiwi coil in with enough--maybe 4 or 5 coils on each climber to build an anchor/start hauling if necesary? then rig everything else like you were on a normal rope?

 

these ropes seam to be getting popular but there isn't much information out there on how to safely use them.

 

any input would be greatly appreciated.

[AlpineK]

Are you going to ski with it

 

Or are you going to do some glacier travel and use a rope labeled randonee?

[bts]

i am wanting to use it for ski mountaineering-- crossing glaciers.

[Dr_Crash]

The randonnee rope (I assume bts has one of the Beal ropes of the same name) will be fine for glacier travel. For not much more money though, one can get a true climbing rope; I got a 37 m 8.4 mm half rope made by Sterling that I use for glacier travel, but has the advantage of also being usable for climbing when someone else brings along another half. 37 m should be good for up to 4 people too (12 m or so between each), though I've never tried that on this very one rope.

 

drC

[bts]

ho does the "randonee" label make the rope any different from any other 1/2 rope?

[Jason_Martin]

Thirty meter ropes are really too short if you plan on putting kiwi coils on for rescue. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat however and it is possible to pull someone out of a crevasse on a two man team without a kiwi coil to work from, it's just WAY more difficult.

 

Personally I like something a little bit longer that I can get kiwi coils out of.

 

The following link that deals with skiing on glaciers was written by a world class ski mountaineering guide:

 

Skiing on Glaciers

 

Jason

[AlpineK]

Jason is right about a 30m rope being too short for the standard 2 person roped technique.

 

I've never skied on a glacier with a rope, or at least I've done it so infrequently that I don't remember. There are some major downsides to sking with a rope.

 

From Jason's link.

 

We should rope up:

 

In or around seracs on a fast flowing glacier.

 

On unknown glaciers.

 

You're probably going to be survival skiing here so this isn't a big deal

 

In bad visibility (fog, snowstorm, flat/poor light)

 

Well the skiing's going to suck, so you really need to get somewhere.

 

After a new snowfall, combined with a lot of wind drifts.

 

Sounds like high avy conditions...do you really want to be skiing?

 

In very warm weather.

 

The skiing's going to suck and this is clasic high avy conditions for spring. Do you really need to be out skiing? I always start early and finish early if I'm skiing on a hot day.

 

In low snow years.

 

...sounds familiar. I don't plan on too much skiing this spring...rock climbing.

 

If the group is hard to control.

 

You're a sucker for going out with a group like this from the get go.

 

Basically all the conditions where roped skiing is advised are probably going to suck for real skiing. I've taken ropes on a couple multi day traverses in case we ran into conditions where we needed to move but there was a white out (for example). For weekend stuff I think you'd be better off choosing a different activity if any of the above conditions are likely, or at least taylor your skiing to fit the conditions.

[Dru]

 

Don't listen to AlpineK. He does not rope up on glaciers. Very unsafe if you ask me

[cj001f]

Jason is right about a 30m rope being too short for the standard 2 person roped technique.

I have the rope in question. It's short and light - nice. You have to be able to catch your partner quick, and be a bit creative on the crevasse retrieval technique(no experience other than practive here, knock on wood). "Standard" technique would not apply. Probably better for well travelled well marked routes with obvious hazards as a precaution, And it's not that much flimsier than my 8.1mm Ice Line.

[AlpineK]

Weren't you unroped taking that picture?

[Dru]

The Mountaineers would flunk us

[salbrecher]

I think that 30m ropes are a good length for roped team of 2 even if you each take a few coils. If you each take 5 coils of 1.5m each you still have 15m of rope between the two of you which is about right in most cases. If someone falls in just prepare to self rescue and prussik out. In the unlikely event the person is knocked out you'll be able to make a 2:1 pully with 7.5m. I rarely rope up on skis on glaciers and hope my forward momentum and dispersed weight keep me out. It's thought provoking to look back and see snow fall into a slot you just skiied over!

[Couloir]

I think that 30m ropes are a good length for roped team of 2 even if you each take a few coils. If you each take 5 coils of 1.5m each you still have 15m of rope between the two of you which is about right in most cases.

I agree. I have a 50m 9mm and it's too much rope.

 

It's thought provoking to look back and see snow fall into a slot you just skiied over!

True dat.

[TheOldHouseMan]

I can think of only one other way of glacier travel that is sketchier than traveling without being roped up and that would be on a two man rope. You better trust the guy on the other end of the rope that he can self arrest, stop the fall and rig up some kind of anchor while he is holding you from falling into the abyss. We tried all this in my crevase rescue class and it was very difficult.