wow... something to erally think about

[allison]

I'm not sure that the everyday experience of being a union member is sexy enough that it's ever going to make the news. I can tell you that by far the vast majority of my experiences as a member have been positive ones. They are not perfect things, as they are run by people, but overall I can't think of anything really negative I can say about it beyond that.

 

I am ignoreing Petey's awful pun, and I think you should all continue to follow my lead. I think it is better not to encourage him.

[Greg_W]

quote:

---

Originally posted by chucK:

Ah, but there's the rub, the crux of this whole debate (I think

).

---

chucK, you're right it's not easy but it can be done. I have looked for a new job while still employed and been successful at it. At one point in my career I did not have the "freedom" to go job hunting, like you said, as I was the primary wage-earner. When that situation changed, I took advantage of it. No one ever said that the right to pursue happiness would be easy, but it does pay off.

 

Greg

[Cobra]

Unions are just another form of politics.

[allison]

I don't think anyone would argue with that. Do you have a point?

[Cobra]

Yeah my point is they suck because I dont have time to bother with more politics than what I deal with daily.

 

I also have worked for companies that don't have unions. They paid fine and matched the benies that "union" companies had. It's a ripoff is my point.

[Greg_W]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra:

Unions are just another form of politics.

---

I read that to say that unions no longer exist solely for the betterment of their members Rather, they exist for the betterment of themselves (i.e., more dues coming in) and the leadership. Why is it that union leaders can't seem to keep their hands out of the cookie jar?

 

Greg W

[allison]

Thievery seems to be a common problem in our culture. Remember Enron? In my experience though, and I used to be a rep for my local, thievery and corruption are not really that common. I never really saw or heard about any, and certainly in my little local it's not a problem. We don't have the resources for it.

 

As far as working non-union and making the same wages, well, that's one of the positive effects that unions have on society at large. Wages negotiated by collective bargaining affect everyone. If a company pays the going rate for labor, it makes union organizing nearly impossible, as the union is left in the position of trying to sell workers on an idea rather than money. The idea they are selling is a process to challenge unjust discipline or termination. You never think about that until something happens, but if it ever does, it sure can be handy to be represented by a union.

[Peter_Puget]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Greg W:

[QBAllison, you union bitch[/QB]

---

So that's your secret to getting women. You little charmer.

[Greg_W]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peter Puget:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Greg W:

[QBAllison, you union bitch

---

So that's your secret to getting women. You little charmer.[/QB]

---

It weeds out the weak ones and brings in the ones who like the rough stuff. What can I say?

[chucK]

Ever notice how whenever something really shocking like someone dieing or someone beating up girls comes up, that the board sorta goes dead for a while?

[Peter_Puget]

Well Allison always gets my heart beating!!!!

 

[Greg_W]

quote:

---

Originally posted by chucK:

Ever notice how whenever something really shocking like someone dieing or someone beating up girls comes up, that the board sorta goes dead for a while?

---

What do you mean?

[allison]

Chuck: yes. I think Greg was joking, it's just that people don't find that too funny.

 

Thing is that Trade Unionism makes people hot under the collar, it's as controversial a topic as abortion or gun control. Somebody want to call me names for being a union member, well, have at it. The anti-union sentiment is generally due to ignorance, and it really has nothing to do with me.

 

Matter of fact the only place I've ever been called worse names than what I've been called for being a union member has been here at cc.com. Seriously.

[Thinker]

And here I was feeling a little blue for people slammin on my avatar.........

[allison]

Ah, but you got a nice little page top!

 

Puget, your #$%&*!!! mailbox is full. Empty it NOW!

[chucK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Greg W:

quote:

---

Originally posted by chucK:

Ever notice how whenever something really shocking like someone dieing or someone beating up girls comes up, that the board sorta goes dead for a while?

---

What do you mean?

---

I just noticed that when you posted about the "the ones who like the rough stuff", and earlier when Jon posted that his mom was dead that there was a noticeable gap in the time before the next message was posted.

 

Did you really need a clarification?

 

I guess it makes sense. People see that stuff and just don't want to touch it. Don't know why I specifically did. I must be a freakin' idiot

[Greg_W]

Chuck - Lighten up, there, bud. I don't condone beating up chics. Some chics just seem to like a bit more athletic amorous adventure than others.

[chucK]

OhhhKaaaay, and those are also the ones who like being verbally abused? Thanks for the tip.

[Greg_W]

Whatever, Chuck. Much ado about nothing, in my book.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

"allison turn off your TV and get your own opinion... why professor are they poor then? my dad was ppor...and he's not now cause he has ambition... i will never be poor nor will the majority of those who dare to work and work hard. you see the american dream is not to jerk off and get paid by the government for it...it is to work hard to make your dreams come true...i am doing it and if your dreams are to be poor then you will be poor...if you dream to be well off that too will be the case...you may not be a millionre, but you wont have to worry about food on the table..."

 

Your example is definitely the exception to the rule, and your rhetoric about "dreams coming true" (gag the Doctor with a fucking tongue depressor ... puh-leez!) is about as After School Special as it gets. You think the hordes of people who can barely afford those 33-cent loaves of air bread at Safeway don't dream of getting out of their poverty shithole? Give DFA a fucking break. There's a hell of a lot more involved in whether someone is poor and stays poor than their ambition. Throw in a child or two, injuries or illness, addictions, etc., and your minimum wage job isn't going to be doing a whole lot for you.

[Greg_W]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing:

You think the hordes of people who can barely afford those 33-cent loaves of air bread at Safeway don't dream of getting out of their poverty shithole? Give DFA a fucking break. There's a hell of a lot more involved in whether someone is poor and stays poor than their ambition. Throw in a child or two, injuries or illness, addictions, etc., and your minimum wage job isn't going to be doing a whole lot for you.

---

You just proved my point that it is all about CHOICES. Make the wrong choice and you could be fucked, but the choice is there for each individual to make.

[sk]

People don't choose to be devistatingly debilitatingly ill. But it does happen. there are people who fall threw the cracks. that are unable to work because of a medical condition, yet they do not qualify for assistance or disability. So they are poor and remain poor and often can not get the medical care they need to correct the situation.

 

I hope you are right fence sitter, that you are lucky enough to never be seriously injured or ill. That you never have to suffer the humility that is poverty.

 

p.s. I am not talking about addiction. although cronic pain can and often does lead to drug abuse and addiction.

[Bronco]

Here's a little story 'bout a friend who started working for a construction company in June of '94 for $8.00/hour. He showed some hustle and by the time he moved on to a better job in June of '97 he was clearing $60,000 per year as a foremam which is what most of the people at that level made but some of the guys made as much as $80,000 including their bonus.

 

Did I mention he was a scab?

 

Part of the reason he left the company is the Union was sucessful in pushing the company to have the field guys join the union. Now nobody makes more than $50,000 (5 years later) and dues come out of that. go figure.

[faust]

Greg, I’m sure your father’s story is an inspiring testament to hard work, the value of which cannot be discounted. The problem with anecdotal evidence is that it goes both ways. When my parents were first married they were very poor, but not to a lack of effort (my dad is a excellent carpenter and a damn hard worker, but in that line work comes and goes). When I was born, complications required a long hospital stay and my parents had a choice: accept government assistance or spend the next few decades under a mountain of debt. They took the handout and looking back it was clearly the best option for both them and for their country. Unhindered by a debilitating loan, they were free to work out their way out of poverty and have more then paid their country back (both in taxes and in community contribution).

 

Is their story an exception? Maybe, but again that’s the trouble with anecdotes. Hard work but also lots of luck determine success (I think my life is going pretty smooth, but I can’t say I’ve ever worked too awfully hard). Welfare programs are meant to merely be help for use in special, very unfortunate circumstances. Most things are gray rather then black and white, and you and I may disagree, but I truly believe government assistance does more good then harm.

 

Sorry for barging in on a thread that I may not have paid enough attention to.

[allison]

I might add that it's a little, er, WRONG, for a bunch of middle-class white people (myself included) to speculate about how easy or hard it is to break the cycle of institutionalized poverty. I'm doubting that few of us have tried it.