slothrop Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Pfft... "rangefinder" cams. If you don't carry these two essentials, you're practically free-soloing: The Impulse Laser Rangefinder (with optional tilt sensor) The Dyer 651 series electronic ID calipers Designed to "Measure all types of internal grooves that are hard to reach": Don't be sketchy! Mountaineers Approved ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriss Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 His figure 12 results of M (dynamic modulus) don't make sense. They are all to high. Like ~ 40-50% to high. Check them using manufacturers test fall data. chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 The take home message for me is what I've always known: the greatest danger is when you first leave the belay. The higher you climb and the more gear you place, the safer you will become. Build a SRENE anchor, get a piece in right away and place your gear close at first until you get some rope out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryad Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Thank you CBS for those brilliant insights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 The take home message for me is what I've always known: the greatest danger is when you first leave the belay. The higher you climb and the more gear you place, the safer you will become. Build a SRENE anchor, get a piece in right away and place your gear close at first until you get some rope out. Free solo, then you don't have to worry about fall factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriss Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 The report leads to believe that falling on the belay anchor is safer than falling on the lead protection. The lead protection suffers from the "pulley" effect and has forces exerted on it greater than produced in the fall alone. So taking a fall factor of 1 or more on to the belay anchor generates less force on the anchor. That is why I give the report no credibility. chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 How do you take a factor 1 fall ON the anchor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriss Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 You have 50m of rope, you fall off at the anchor and fall 50m. 50/50=1 Basically no belay at all. So any "lead" fall would have a fall factor between 1 and 2, unless you climbed down and fell. This would be stupid to do, but it allows for the lowest force on the gear. It would always use the full length of rope to absorb the fall and no "lead" protection (to suffer "pulley" and friction effects). This is why the report and a strictly analytical approach is not always best. chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Exactly... how do you do that? You would have to be the most insanely stupid person on this Earth to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATT_B Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 I saw it happen once. A guy jugged a pitch and never tied in short. When he got to the anchors he must have taken his ascenders off and never tied into the anchor. Couple minutes later I hear a screem and see the guy flying down the pitch below. Thought he was going to crater but stopped right next to the anchors one pich below. At least he was tied into the end of the rope. That would be a fall factor 1 onto his anchors. Although it wasn't vertical (second or third pitch of the free blast) and he lost some skin slowing him down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 You would have to be the most insanely stupid person on this Earth to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 I saw it happen once. A guy jugged a pitch and never tied in short. When he got to the anchors he must have taken his ascenders off and never tied into the anchor. Couple minutes later I hear a screem and see the guy flying down the pitch below. Thought he was going to crater but stopped right next to the anchors one pich below. At least he was tied into the end of the rope. That would be a fall factor 1 onto his anchors. Although it wasn't vertical (second or third pitch of the free blast) and he lost some skin slowing him down. Sounds like bungee jumping. Yikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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