fall at minne

[wally]

A friend of mine was bouldering at minne, she wasn't paying close attention and ended up about 20feet up and unable to downclimb. she was alone and ended up losing her grip and fell breaking her lower back. she was found a while later by a passer by. she had surgery they removed a rib, ground it up and put it in her back. A good lesson about not climbing alone and pushing bouldering beyond ones ability

[Dechristo]

"A good lesson about not climbing alone and pushing bouldering beyond ones ability."

 

Acceptance of cognizant and potential risk is generally allowed as a personal decision. All people establish their own parameters of acceptable risk and participate, or do not participate, in activities according to their judgement. To drive a car, or not to drive a car. To travel by flight, or not to travel by flight. To drink from another's glass, or... not. I, personally, do not concur with your assessment of solo climbing to be an unacceptable risk. The motivation for your post may stem from a true concern for others, but, it judges and dictates a restriction of freedom of personal choice.

 

As for the warning of climbing beyond one's abilities... well, I think you've lost or have never known what climbing is really all about.

 

If I misunderstand you, my apologies.

[carolyn]

I seriously injured my leg in the beginning of the summer due to a fall...I was bouldering by myself. I had a GREAT day. Other than bummed that I havent been able to climb all summer I really dont regret my decisions that day.

 

Like Dechristo said, it is a personal decision to accept cetain risks or not. I chose to risk...and I suffered the consequences. So is life!

 

I do hope your friend heals fast.

 

Happy climbing, however you chose to do it!

[wally]

I have no problem with solo climbing, I do it all the time. My point is if you are a beginner it's not the brightest descision to climb alone. I wouldn't tackel a new route in a sport that I am just starting out in. that would be like hopping in a white water boat thinking you can run some class fives without any experience

[pope]

  Quote

Acceptance of cognizant and potential risk is generally allowed as a personal decision.

Perhaps the decision is personal, but the impact of one little mistake during your self-absorbed soloing mission can DEEPLY affect people around you. Who do you think is going to wipe your ass when you're in traction?

 

 

  Quote

All people establish their own parameters of acceptable risk and participate, or do not participate, in activities according to their judgement. To drive a car, or not to drive a car. To travel by flight, or not to travel by flight. To drink from another's glass, or... not. I, personally, do not concur with your assessment of solo climbing to be an unacceptable risk.

First of all, take it from a guy who once loved soloing, there are many variables in rock climbing, whether performing with or without a rope. What makes ropeless rock climbing unique (and certainly different from the examples you cite) is that after 50 feet or so, there is almost zero chance of surviving a fall.

 

 

  Quote

The motivation for your post may stem from a true concern for others, but, it judges and dictates a restriction of freedom of personal choice.

I didn't read this; perhaps you deciphered this from the subtext. I only read an account of a guy who has personal experience with a friend getting severely hurt, and he's advising "this is what CAN happen when you climb alone and withou a rope."

 

 

  Quote

As for the warning of climbing beyond one's abilities... well, I think you've lost or have never known what climbing is really all about.

Climbing is "all about" many different things for many different people. You're kind of arrogant to assume your interpretation is correct, and you're kind of a jerk to tell Wally that he lacks understanding in this area.

 

Climb solo if you want to, take whatever risks you feel are vital to deriving from climbing any meaning in your life. Just remember that even if your mother is the only person on the planet who gives a shit about you, you still owe it to her to temper your adventures so that your life is long and healthy.

 

 

  Quote

If I misunderstand you, my apologies.

I think you did.

[catbirdseat]

Well said pope. Dechristo was apparently reading judgement in wally's post where none was apparent- at least to me. Wally was just calling attention to what can happen. People can't make choices for themselves when they don't know the consequences. When we participate in a dangerous activity, each time we do it and nothing happens our brains become desensitized to the danger. The danger may in fact be always the same, when in fact the perception of it decreases.

[MervGriffin]

What pope said.

 

  Quote

As for the warning of climbing beyond one's abilities... well, I think you've lost or have never known what climbing is really all about.

 

Do you really think you know this for everyone? My 31 years of climbing experience, including a lot of soloing, says otherwise. And by the way, a lot of people don't realize the risk until they are in over their heads. I've done it myself more than once and am lucky to have survived those experiences. Best wishes to the young lady who fell.

[pindude]

Broke her lower back, ouch. As far as Dechristo’s comments go, I’m another who agrees with Pope.

 

Wally, points well taken. Until reading your post, I figured your friend was another in a long line of non-climbers who either inadvertently or on purpose end up in a climbing situation way over their heads and get injured or killed, and are commonly misreported by the media as being a "climber."

 

The event was the lead story of the early evening news last Tuesday for the 3 main local TV news stations.

Spokane KHQ (NBC) story

KXLY news story with video

Unfortunately one of the rescuers suffered heat exhaustion and had to be rescued himself.

 

As a somewhat regular climber out there and a sometime instructor, I've been asked a lot of questions about what happened. Not knowing Lacy myself, nor the real story, each time I responded by saying I thought it was likely a non-climber who got into trouble. Now that I know your friend is indeed a climber, my relative lack of concern has changed: I hope Lacy heals quickly, completely, and is able to get back on the rock ASAP.

 

If you read this Lacy, I’m glad you were not hurt worse, and wish you the best.

 

--Steve Reynolds

[wally]

Thanks for the simpathy, I talked with her dad today and she is expected to make a full recovery in about 8 months. She has some serious rehab ahead of her, but she is a strong girl and will pull through.

[Marty]

So steve you have concern if the person is a climber but none if they are a non climber? Is this one of the Spokane Mountaineers creedo's? This really smacks of elitism but I'll assume your post needs editing. Or should I assume otherwise?

[AaronB]

  Quote

Climb solo if you want to, take whatever risks you feel are vital to deriving from climbing any meaning in your life. Just remember that even if your mother is the only person on the planet who gives a shit about you, you still owe it to her to temper your adventures so that your life is long and healthy.

It appears that you have made judgement on what type of climbing Dechristo does. I believe the subject was of a bouldering fall aprx. 20' up. I have bailed on boulders from that high up and have been fine. Not to say, a small change could have occured "in the same fall" resulting in serious injury. So do I set up limitations? When skiing, do I skip the kicker that is begging for me to hit it. Because if I don't, I run the risk of injury, creating the need for someone to wipe my ass?

 

 

Wally made a post. In the post he included his opinion.

  Quote

A good lesson about not climbing alone and pushing bouldering beyond ones ability

 

 

 

 

Dechristo puts his opinion here.

  Quote

Acceptance of cognizant and potential risk is generally allowed as a personal decision. All people establish their own parameters of acceptable risk and participate, or do not participate, in activities according to their judgement.

 

 

And finally Pope. You post your Sentiments Here.

  Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Perhaps the decision is personal, but the impact of one little mistake during your self-absorbed soloing mission can DEEPLY affect people around you. Who do you think is going to wipe your ass when you're in traction?

 

How did bouldering get to "self-absorbed soloing mission" And BTW, my mom has been wiping my ass since I was born. Bike crashes, Bee stings, "drowning", falling off a cliff, etc. etc. etc. I doubt she wishes in any way that I had been "more thoughfull of her having to take care of me" in what I do in life.

[pope]

If you read carefully, you will note that my post responds to Deschristo's statement:

 

  Quote

I, personally, do not concur with your assessment of solo climbing to be an unacceptable risk.

 

You see, I'm not implying Dechristo is a soloist, or that bouldering has something to do with soloing, as you suggest (although any time a fall off a boulder results in a serious back injury, you have to question whether you have crossed the line from bouldering into free soloing). Decrhisto has decided that Wally's advice some how infringes on the personal freedom of a solo climber, and Decrhisto charges that Wally doesn't understand (or perhaps doesn't remember) what "climbing is all about". Decrhisto is the guy making assertions and logical leaps, and so are you.

[AaronB]

I feel Dechristo was polite and used tact in stating his opinion. You also made the choice to post your opinion. Now I am posting mine.

  Quote

Just remember that even if your mother is the only person on the planet who gives a shit about you, you still owe it to her to temper your adventures so that your life is long and healthy.

You can temper your own censored adventures, and live "long and healthy" for other ppl. This is a climbing forum! Not a quilting society.. Who are you to tell me how to live my own life. It's cool with me if you want to make your mom feel good knowing that her son is safe and sound with a censored spotter, crash pad, and altimeter at the local crag, but expect a reply if you push that on me.

 

censored to remove F word

Edited August 24, 2004 by AaronB

[pope]

You sound young...I think I understand your attitude. I'm only offereing advice that eventually made an enormous amount of sense to me when I heard it. I was lucky enough to have survived many ropeless climbs without paying a price. I hope you live to realize there are many experiences in life even more satisfying than high-risk climbing.

[MervGriffin]

  Quote

You can temper your own f*&%ing adventures, and live "long and healthy" for other ppl. This is a climbing forum! Not a quilting society...

 

Yah, man. Almost forget. WE'RE CLIMBERS! and we're wild and crazy and reckless, hard-drinking, wild-partyin', don't-mess-with-me-and-you-can-shove-your-opinion-up-your-butt-tough-talkin', hippie-van drivin', hanging out with a bone-in-the-nose girlfriend with hairy armpits, Whillians/Burgess Brothers/Vulgarian emulating, spit-in-the-face-of-the-reaper, buccaneers of the vertical frontier, matadors of the quick draw, desperados of the bouldering pad, Yee ha! and we don't care 'bout nothin cuz we're climbers! So don't even suggest that what I have to say might be weak because...I'M A CLIMBER, and I'm wild and crazy and reckless, hard-drinking, wild-partyin'....

 

  Quote

Who are you to tell me how to live my own life.

 

Dude...he can tell you whatever he likes. And you can choose to consider it, follow it or leave it. "pope" ain't your dictator or puppetmaster. What a country!

 

  Quote

It's cool with me if you want to make your mom feel good knowing that her son is safe and sound with a f*#%ing spotter, crash pad, and altimeter at the local crag, but expect a reply if you push that on me.

 

Once again....how's it been "pushed" on you? Take it or leave it.

 

Have a nice day.

 

P.S. Two drops of the "f" bomb in one post? Come on, man....really. You're better than that.

[RuMR]

well put pope!

[AaronB]

I don't know where it was assumed I was a crazy soloist. I was adding my opinion on climbing & it's risks.

 

And I agree RuMR, well put Pope.. There are many experiences in life even more satisfying than high-risk climbing.. To put it further, there are things in my life more satisfying that climbing at all. That is why I do try to be safe while climbing. And it did take me a long time to figure this out. I have been climbing many years "dog years" and I also found in life, you can't hold other ppl back just because you aren't willing to accept the same risks.

 

 

How about a 3rd F bomb Merv, censored you But I will give a on your post.. I did enjoy the commentary, and He-Man figure.

Edited August 24, 2004 by AaronB

[pindude]

  Quote

Pindude originally said:

Broke her lower back, ouch. As far as Dechristo’s comments go, I’m another who agrees with Pope.

 

Wally, points well taken. Until reading your post, I figured your friend was another in a long line of non-climbers who either inadvertently or on purpose end up in a climbing situation way over their heads and get injured or killed, and are commonly misreported by the media as being a "climber."

 

The event was the lead story of the early evening news last Tuesday for the 3 main local TV news stations.

Spokane KHQ (NBC) story

KXLY news story with video

Unfortunately one of the rescuers suffered heat exhaustion and had to be rescued himself.

 

As a somewhat regular climber out there and a sometime instructor, I've been asked a lot of questions about what happened. Not knowing Lacy myself, nor the real story, each time I responded by saying I thought it was likely a non-climber who got into trouble. Now that I know your friend is indeed a climber, my relative lack of concern has changed: I hope Lacy heals quickly, completely, and is able to get back on the rock ASAP.

 

If you read this Lacy, I’m glad you were not hurt worse, and wish you the best.

 

  Quote

Marty said:

So steve you have concern if the person is a climber but none if they are a non climber? Is this one of the Spokane Mountaineers creedo's? This really smacks of elitism but I'll assume your post needs editing. Or should I assume otherwise?

 

First time I've seen this; I guess this is what rainy days are for. Marty, didn't anyone tell you to never "assume?"

 

All or none? I'm certainly not that elitist, nor is that my "credo." Please don't read more into words than what they plainly state. Do you have a problem with me potentially having more concern for a member of the climbing community getting hurt out there than perhaps some drunken crackhead who was falling off the cliff while spray-painting it? What are you trying to do, pick a fight in a public setting?

 

Next time feel free to contact me directly or move it to spray.

 

Edited to add: mmmm, even my wife on reading this says I originally used a poor choice of words to convey what she knows I meant: I *am* a compassionate person for all, and naturally would care more for someone I know or someone is a member of the climbing community. Didn't mean to convey any disrespect or complete lack of care for others. Score one for you, Marty.

Edited August 25, 2004 by pindude