Dru Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 malcolm smith on "dreamtime": "That the holds are different [now and when Fred climbed it, V14 now V15 then] is not due to chipping but due to hundreds of attempts and brushings resulting in organic change over time" In other words brushing changes and mostly improves small holds. Microchipping or Nanochipping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 I'm gonna go ahead and say Malcom is full of shit. On sandstone, or other soft rock, I could see the potential for brushing making a hold bigger (by sculpting the rock above/behind it). Â Dreamtime is on granite. If anything, I would expect brushing to make the holds worse be removing texture and abrading the tiny edges into even tinier edges. Â I've climbed plenty of boulder problems that required brushing to go at their given grade, but ONLY because a bunch of chalk happy beanie boys with a community chalk bucket the size of a daypack felt the need to immerse their entire hands into the chalk before every attempt and then do the eura-wanker chalk blow...never mind that is was 45 degrees out and zero chance that their hands were sweaty. Maybe I'm wrong and they were sweaty, after all they didn't have their shirts on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 the difference between hard and soft rock is not that soft rock is damaged by brushing when soft rock isn't - soft rock is just damaged much more quickly and observably than hard rock by brushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaterfall Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Nanochipping v. Picochipping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 well - it's like hydraulic conductivity. we think of unfractured granite as impermeable but really it just conducts water at a rate 1X10^8 to 10^20 times slower than a pourous sandstone.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 how the fuk does a thread go from brushing chalk off crimps to talking about "K" leave it to the zensprayer dru to keep things "real" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacier Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Nah, your relative K ranges are a bit off - Â A sandstone is typically in the range of 10^-4 to 10^-8 cm/sec, while an unfractured igneous rock is in the range to 10^-8 to 10^-12. However, for a fractured igneous rock is considerably more permeable (10^-2 to 10^-6 cm/sec), obviously due to preferential flow through the cracks and voids (Freeze & Cherry, 1979). A lot of your permeability assumptions will bepend on your definintion of thyour Representative Elementary Volume that you are using, e.g. a small volume, like Columbia Boulder or Big Joe, could be assumed somewhat homogenous and unfractured. However, if your REV is somewhat larger (Mt. Stuart, Supercrack Buttress), then you have to tak into account both mineralogical heterogenity and areal fracturing, which will increase your hydraulic conductivity values accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 I seem to recall a K value for some deep granite in the Canadian Shield, being considered for Yucca Mtn style nuclear waste disposal, of 10^-23.... I don't have my Freeze and Cherry here to check though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacier Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Could be -check the units, though - they could be using some oddball Canadian standard like furlongs per fortnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 furlongs per fortnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mer Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Meanwhile, back at the subject... I was a popular sport crag this weekend, and a few of the well-used holds holds were mighty greasy. I noticed it more when they were operating as footholds. I don't have a ready measure of the greasiness, but being Canadian I would describe it as "feeling like several grams of back bacon grease had been applied to a toonie-sized hold". I've never seen anyone brush holds on the way down, but if I return I'd consider carrying a tiny scrub brush. Seems like a good idea, and with only a rack of draws, I had two completely empty gear loops to carry stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 It is obvious from the idiotic comments in this thread that the people who decry brushing have no basis for their distaste other than the fact that the brushing is being carried out by people who climb harder than they do. You are the same ass-clowns who think that people who climb hard are egotistical assholes, even though you've never talked to one. Insecure fuckstickholes. You need to come to terms with your feelings of inadequacy or keep your whiny yaps shut. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 (edited) It is obvious from the idiotic comments in this thread that the people who decry brushing have no basis for their distaste other than the fact that the brushing is being carried out by people who climb harder than they do. You are the same ass-clowns who think that people who climb hard are egotistical assholes, even though you've never talked to one. Insecure fuckstickholes. You need to come to terms with your feelings of inadequacy or keep your whiny yaps shut.  hey. fuckface. The thread is here. Deal with it, or maybe try to say something meaningful...? Especially like the "even though you've never talked to one" part. Do they all sound like you?  oh yeah, you other punkasses too. It's not spray... yet... Edited August 12, 2004 by ashw_justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 I climbed something once that was pretty hard for me. I didn't use chalk and I didn't brush the holds before or after. Don't yell at me, Dr. Meanie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancegranite Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Chalk: We use it, We love it. Â Maybe I should smoke while I climb, it mellows me out. Triassiac sands, 105 degerees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szyjakowski Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 this pic is fricken rad man! just like you, sendbot version 1985 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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