F/ 911

[cracked]

Sounds like SailBOI never took econ 101!

 

Oh, and , BTW.

[Dave_Schuldt]

Where on earth did people get the idea that documentaries were supposed to be unbiased?

 

Ever see the most famous documentary of all time, The Triumph of the Will? It's Nazi propaganda. Still a documentary though.

 

This movie is his opinion. Are newspaper colums objective? Moore never claims the movie is objective.

I herd the DVD has more stuff (blood and guts) that he didn't put in the movie.

Moore is

[cracked]

Didn't he win the Palme D'Or for best documentary?

 

And how the hell do you 'herd' a DVD?

[AlpineK]

how the hell do you 'herd' a DVD?

 

 

With an Austrailian DVD herder dipshit.

[cracked]

Oh, but of course! D'oh!

[sailBOI]

The FED us unconstitutional, and the Fiat monetary system is an immoral debt based hoax that could lead to the greatest threat to our Country......bankruptcy

So explain to us all how the gold standard would solve all our problems?

 

And that the Fed is to blame for bankruptcy and not deficit spending?

 

I will leave that to Congressman Ron Paul, who is a leading Libertarian with many years of service on the House Banking Committee :

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

The Federal Reserve Debt Engine

 

Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan testifies for both US House and Senate committees several times each year, and last week appeared before the Joint Economic committee on which I serve. These appearances by Mr. Greenspan always cause quite a stir on Capitol Hill. Often the stock markets react within hours of his pronouncements regarding the health of the economy and the future of interest rates.

 

Congress and the financial press treat Mr. Greenspan as an all-knowing sage, seeking his wisdom on political and even social issues that have nothing to do with monetary policy. During last week’s hearing Mr. Greenspan was asked his opinion on topics such as Social Security, tax cuts, federal spending, corporate accounting rules, the congressional budget process, and even immigration. It seems bizarre that a credulous Congress and public are willing to accept the judgment of on unelected, virtually unaccountable central banker while knowing little or nothing about the Federal Reserve itself.

 

Judging by Mr. Greenspan’s statements to a Senate committee in February, Fed economists are confusing debt with wealth. Mr. Greenspan praises the “sustained expansion of the US economy,” but then goes on to highlight the real reason for the expansion: loose monetary policy and near-zero interest rates. Since Fed bankers set interest rates artificially low, the cost of borrowing money is very cheap. This leads to more and more consumer spending, which Mr. Greenspan touts as the driving force for economic growth.

 

In fact, he expressly cites the benefits of increased household spending made possible by mortgage refinancing. But new debt is not wealth, and it’s impossible to borrow one’s way into prosperity. Mortgage debt increased 13% last year, while consumer credit debt also increased. American households unquestionably have more debt and save less than ever before. Yet we are expected to believe that more spending and more debt are the keys to economic prosperity.

 

During past recessions, many Americans shed debt either through bankruptcy or through austerity measures. In other words, they either changed their spending and borrowing habits or went broke. At some point their debts were in essence cleared from the books. In the recent recession of 2000-2002, however, many cash-strapped households managed to stay ahead of creditors by borrowing even more money. This is directly attributable to Fed easy-money policies, which greatly expanded the money supply and caused banks to lower creditworthiness standards. As a result, many Americans are overextended rather than bankrupt. Someday, however, they simply won’t be able to borrow another dime. All the Fed has done is make the bubble bigger and postpone the day of reckoning. This hardly makes for a strong economy, which must be based on savings and investment.

 

It’s not enough to question the wisdom of Mr. Greenspan. Americans should question why we have a central bank at all, and whose interests it serves. The laws of supply and demand work better than any central banker to determine both the correct supply of money in the economy and the interest rate at which capital is available- without the political favoritism and secrecy that characterize central banks. Americans should not tolerate the manipulation of our economy and the inflation of our currency by an unaccountable institution.

=========================================================

 

He does not mention here , though he has before, that the $30 Billion/month trade deficit would have been impossible under the Gold standard as accounts are therein not settled with debt instruments created out of thin air.

Total US debt is now approaching 3 X GDP, a level last reached in 1932 during the last Depression which was also arguably caused by the FED's actions !

[E-rock]

I can't figure out who's the bigger idiot, the left-wing non-thinkers who wanna suck Moore's fat, hairy cock or sailBOI, the libertarian know-nothing knowitall. Nice analysis fellas.

[sailBOI]

I can't figure out who's the bigger idiot, the left-wing non-thinkers who wanna suck Moore's fat, hairy cock or sailBOI, the libertarian know-nothing knowitall. Nice analysis fellas.

 

Maybe this will help.....the COMMUNISTS are all praising Michael Moore !

 

Communists Laud Moore

 

[Roger]

Regarding the attached map :

 

About the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in

the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The

University of Edinborough) had this to say about "The Fall of The

Athenian Republic" some 2,000 years prior.

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a

permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up

until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves

generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the

majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits

from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will

finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed

by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning

of history, ! has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these

nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From Bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage;

>From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to

complacency; >From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence;

From dependence back into bondage."

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul,

Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the most recent

Presidential election:

Population of counties won by:

Gore=127 million

Bush=143 million

Square miles of land won by:

Gore=580,000

Bush=2,2427,000

States won by:

Gore=19

Bush=29

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:

Gore=13.2

Bush=2.1

Professor Olson adds:

"In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land

owned by the tax-paying citizens of this great country. Gore's

territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned

tenements and living off government welfare..."

 

Olson believes the U.S. is now somewhere between the "complacency and

"apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy; with some

40 percent of the nation's population already having reached the

"governmental dependency" phase.

 

Newsflash for sailboy regarding that map and the associated BS quoted above: more people actually voted for Gore. Last I checked, sagebrush doesn't get to vote, but I'd be interested to hear your theory about the significance of uninhabited land in presidential elections. More importantly, most of that garbage you quoted above was actually made up and circulated by your fellow wingnuts:

 

(edited from snopes, full text here)

 

3. The quote from "Alexander Tyler" is very likely fictitious. His name was actually "Lord Woodhouselee, Alexander Fraser Tytler," and he was a Scottish historian/professor who wrote several books in the late 1700s and early 1800s.

 

However, there is no record of The Fall of the Athenian Republic or The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic in the Library of Congress, which has several other titles by Tytler. This quote has also been cited as being from Tytler's Universal History or from his Elements of General History, Ancient and Modern, books that do exist. These books seem the most likely source of the quote, as they contain extensive discussions of the political systems in historic civilizations, including Athens. Universal History was published after, and based upon, Elements of General History, which was a collection of Professor Tytler's lecture notes.

 

Tytler's book, Universal history, from the creation of the world to the beginning of the eighteenth century, is available for viewing and searching on-line. The complete text was searched for each of the following phrases:

Athenian Republic

democracy

generous gifts

public treasury

loose fiscal

fiscal

bondage

200 years

two hundred years

spiritual faith

 

In no case was text identified that was remotely similar in words or intent to the alleged Tytler quote.

 

4. Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University is not the source of any of the statistics or the text attributed to him. Professor Olson was contacted (by me) via e-mail, and he confirmed that he had no authorship or involvement in this matter. And, as Fayette Citizen editor Dave Hamrick wrote back in January 2001:

 

I really enjoyed one recent message that was circulated extremely widely, at least among conservatives. It gave several interesting "facts" supposedly compiled by statisticians and political scientists about the counties across the nation that voted for George Bush and the ones that voted for Al Gore in the recent election.

 

Supposedly, the people in the counties for Bush had more education, more income, ad infinitum, than the counties for Gore.

 

I didn't have time to check them all out, but I was curious about one item in particular... the contention that the murder rate in the Gore counties was about a billion times higher than in the Bush counties.

 

This was attributed to a Professor Joseph Olson at the Hamline University School of Law. I never heard of such a university, but went online and found it. And Prof. Olson does exist.

 

"Now I'm getting somewhere," I thought.

 

But in response to my e-mail, Olson said the "research" was attributed to him erroneously. He said it came from a Sheriff Jay Printz in Montana. I e-mailed Sheriff Printz, and guess what? He didn't do the research either, and didn't remember who had e-mailed it to him.

 

In other words, he got the same legend e-mailed to him and passed it on to Olson without checking it out, and when Olson passed it on, someone thought it sounded better if a law professor had done the research, and so it grew.

 

Who knows where it originally came from, but it's just not true.

 

5. The county-by-county murder-rate comparison presented in this piece is wrong.

 

According to the U.S. Department of Justice (DoJ), in the year 2000 the national murder rate was about 5.5 per 100,000 residents. Homicide data by county for 1999 and 2000 can be downloaded from the National Archive of Criminal Justice Data (NAJCD), and the counties won by Gore and Bush can be identified using the county-by-county election results made available by CNN. (The NACJD provides not only the number of reported murders for each county, but also the population for each.) The average murder rate in the counties won by Gore vs. the rate in the counties won by Bush can be determined from this data.

 

By calculating the murder rate for each county and then taking the averages, we find a murder rate (defined as number of murders per 100,000 residents) of about 5.2 for the "average" Gore county and 3.3 for the average Bush county. But since people, rather than counties, commit murders, a more appropriate approach is to calculate the total number of murders in the counties won by each candidate and divide that figure by the total number of residents in those counties. This more appropriate method yields the following average murder rates in counties won by each candidate:

 

Gore: 6.5

Bush: 4.1

 

There is a distinct difference between these two numbers, but it is nowhere near as large as the quoted e-mail message states (i.e., 13.2 for Gore vs. 2.1 for Bush). Note that the average of these two figures is 5.3, which, as expected, is very close to the reported national murder rate of 5.5.

[johndavidjr]

Roger: amusing, unsurprising analysis on what silly sailor boy takes for information.

 

I must agree with him, however, that the central bank is unconstitutional. Really, having a U.S. currency is an unwarranted federal intrusion on the economy.

------

[klenke]

The only person who said anything remotely interesting on this thread was JayB, and he didn't say anything at all.

 

I saw F911. I'd give it an A for propaganda, but a D- for documentary. Why should I explain why? Who cares.

[Dave_Schuldt]

Spray on...........

[jjd]

 

 

Michael Moore is a big, fat fucking lard ass.

 

[sailBOI]

The only person who said anything remotely interesting on this thread was JayB, and he didn't say anything at all.

 

I saw F911. I'd give it an A for propaganda, but a D- for documentary. Why should I explain why? Who cares.

 

The Terrorists apparently care :

 

Terrorists Love Moore

 

[E-rock]

Yup I'm sure all those whacky terrorists are sitting around the tube with popcorn and soda watching a bootleg DVD, hooting and laughing at their great fortune!

[johndavidjr]

Actually, I was thinking today that what Iraq really needs is for Outward Bound to open up a program for its youth. This builds character and values, which they seem to lack, and might help them get into a good school, and maybe even a nice job on Wall Street.

 

It would certainly be a good way to introduce them to American values, and I think there are interesting mountains in the northwestern part of what is now Iraq, or certainly in Afghanistan, where some sort of an exchange program could be worked out.

 

Or possibly they could run sailing programs in the Persian Gulf as an alternative....It's not Maine of course, but a man should know something about yachting.... don't you think?

 

 

____

[sailBOI]

Dems rejecting Moore now :

 

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/7/24/142957.shtml

[EWolfe]

Gee that's a surprise!

 

 

[johndavidjr]

I especially enjoy Jerry Falwell's columns on that site. I'm going to be sending them to all my scientist friends. Thanks for the link, Sail Boy!