Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Exactly Tinkerbell. Kind of dovetails on what CBS was saying and Scrambler was referring to. The social contract of this country has outgrown this country and we need to let it evolve and quit hoarding it. It will change into something different to be sure but the fruit is rotting on the vine. Seems kind of selfish to keep it all to our self and finger printing all "outsiders" who wish to come visit. Kind of goes against the spirit of the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 my definitation of patriotism... i don't think it involves specific borders. i'm always fascinated by the olympics. people from different countries competing against each other. this seems so odd and irrelevant to me. borders in many parts of the world change often. they're really just arbitrary lines on a map. it doesn't make the people who live on one side it very much different than the people on the other side. the ideals and concepts set forth in our consitution are worth supporting. my patriotism doesn't relate to our country as a geographic entity but rather the ideas by which we govern that area. Thank you for saying what I couldn't find the words to express. I would add that as far as geographic area I am loyal to my neighbors, and our general area. but it doesn't have alot to do with the boundries of the city. I live in one city and work in a diffrent one. but I consider my work and home in the same neighborhood as they are about 4 miles apart. I try to shop and use other businesses in my area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arlen Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 I love my country the way I love my family. Not because it's better than others, but because I know it. I feel comfortable disagreeing with family members and don't have to chestbeat to prove I'm a part of it. And that, my small-minded trolling fuckwad friend HRoark, is patriotism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 (edited) if democracy in the U.S. can be a tool to serve the humanistic needs of a broader good (as it has in the past - i.e. getting rid of fascism in germany say) then i am willing to be a patriot. if it's just a game of creating good things for assholes that happen to be u.s. citizens at the expense of the rest of the human species then i'm not a patriot. i don't believe in that shit, don't think it works, and don't need it. I don't know if I'm a believer in Cap't America. By that, I mean, are we really the crusader for liberty yada yada yada? Seems WWII was more a European war fought mainly by Europeans and won largely on the basis of European lives (Soviet Union, Britain, e.g.). Seems more of a land or power grab rather than a war of ideals, e.g. the Spanish-American War and to some extent the Pacific theater of WWII. Aren't we just brutish animals deep down inside, with power plays at the basis of our motives? Fighting wars in the name of abstract ideas is a lie. Edited January 13, 2004 by scrambler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 There're only a select handful of true patriots that post here to cc. So for the rest of you commies, I say fuck off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 No. I'm implying that there should be a common bond. Could be genetic, social, political, language, religious, etc. In other words, I don't have enough commonalities with most strangers to let them be a part of my family. Same goes with country. There aren't enough commonalities to consider the world one entity. Now for purposes such as discussing global warming, sure, I could discuss the world as an interconnected system because we all share the atmosphere and to some extent the oceans. But don't tell me I should accept another country uncritically if their interests are opposed to the ideals of my country. by your definition scrambler, if i don't think you and i have enough in common then then we don't need to be part of the same meaningful collective, so i don't need to be patriotic. so "patriotism" might be defined as a meaningless contrivance and any politition who peddles can be rejected as pushing a bullshit agenda. yes...that would seem to be what he's saying although i kind of doubt that's what he really means. we don't all have to agree or even be all that similar if there is one over riding thing we're supporting. it seems to me that in times past, the people of this country rallied around the concept of democracy and the freedoms provided to us by the constitution. they truly believed that it was a duty to protect these things. many felt that there was an obligation to spread the concept through out the world. today it seems that we pay lip service to these ideals but we(speaking generally here...i don't mean every single person) surely don't hold them as dear as generations past. perhaps that's the common bond we could/should all share to unite us as a nation. as part of a corporate entity, i am very different from many if not most of my coworkers. despite not sharing many things in common we are all able to work together towards the larger goal...success of our company. sharing many common traits is not a requirement for uniting. having one strong thing in common can bond a large group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 I feel the same way Muffy. I trust the local political process and my community because I have access to the people and see how they live, and I interact with them. I trust them even tho I might completely disagree with them, because I know them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Happiness is a warm gun, eh Trask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 The following quote is attributed to the Frenchman, Voltaire, "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." That is a very patriotic thing to say because he is standing for a principle, that of free speech. When the Bush Administration decided it didn't like what former Ambassador Wilson said it decided to leak the identity of his wife, a CIA operative. That is not patriotism. That is treason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 I sleep at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 exactly CBS! It will be interesting to see what happens to Paul Oneil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 "We [the world] are all one big happy family" yeah the manson family. i would rather live next to trask than some [fill in the militant religious group (from tree-huggers to militant christians)] that wants to kill me just because i am not of the same religious affiliation as he. this is idealistic bullshit. Are you gonna waltz over there and tell them that they are welcomed to 'our family' hahahaha naive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 I sleep at night. It sucks being scared of outsiders. I finally put my bullets in storage. But I live on an Island, and I can see them coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Self-preservation of identity is the first imperative. If I hold my beliefs as equal in value to my body in forming my self identity then I must preserve my social system if it is the basis for my beliefs. If I begin to think for myself then the social system need not be supported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 I'll tell ya what, living next to me is a good thang. Lots of parties, gun slinging, wife swapping, and ribald good times. Beats hanging out with Dave Schuldt and the Morons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 werd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 well we likely do live next to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 was that your ol' lady that gave me the blow job Sunday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Is anyone else wondering where is JayB, J_B, Fairweather, sexual_chocolate and mattp? This should be mother's milk to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Scrambler, your nonsense is barely comprehensible. Do some editing, will ya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Wha? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 I wish you would invite me over some Trask, sounds like fun. Scott, I am not naive. It won't be easy and probably not in our life time. We are pretty divided as a people. There will be a lot of pain and suffering to come. My cousin spent a lot of time and money helping out kids in the inner city and was shot and killed when some grown up ones felt he had something they wanted. It has completely fucked my family up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 on saturday while smokin out? puff puff give give. motherfuker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Wha? Too many prepositional phrases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 I wish you would invite me over some Trask, sounds like fun. Scott, I am not naive. It won't be easy and probably not in our life time. We are pretty divided as a people. There will be a lot of pain and suffering to come. My cousin spent a lot of time and money helping out kids in the inner city and was shot and killed when some grown up ones felt he had something they wanted. It has completely fucked my family up. It will never happen. We will destroy this rock before we can even be on terms with the French let alone the militant theocracies. The best that we can hope for is... That we just leave eachother to our own devices and self-inflicted extinction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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