glacier Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 'Course, you can also kill someone and just claim you had low blood sugar... Janklow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 cracked said: My opinion is unpopular, as I knew. I shouldn't have started. No, your opinion is uneducated, as always. Has it ever occured to you that most of the times you jump on the Trask bandwagon, he's making inciteful comments only to perpetuate the nihilistic image of his avatar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 E-rock said: cracked said: My opinion is unpopular, as I knew. I shouldn't have started. No, your opinion is uneducated, as always. Has it ever occured to you that most of the times you jump on the Trask bandwagon, he's making inciteful comments only to perpetuate the nihilistic image of his avatar? You have abolutely no clue what I know or do not know. My opinion is based on one hell of a lot more than what Trask says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Riiiiiiggghhhht Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted December 9, 2003 Author Share Posted December 9, 2003 Is anyone else experiencing deja vu ? A glitch in the Matrix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Cracked is young and hasn't really discovered how to think for himself, nor does he understand the value of an informed opinion in a discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 I think it's beer-thirty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 alright, I been running my mouth all day, but I gotta comment on this one. Erwin ,TN is right off the AT. When I was hiking it, I holed up there on this commune farm for about a week to chill with some hippified folks. I went to the bar in Erwin on a Sat night with this crazy ass German dude with the whole 80's hair metal look goin, some preppy guy and gal from Cape Cod, a young chica from FL, and the local dude who owned the hiker's hostel. I thought we were gonna get beaten down for sure. We're all in typical hiker garb. Bad looks, getting bumped around, bartender would barely serve us. A few "fuckin queers" comments. Then German buddy put some AC/DC on the jukebox, and started gettin down! Dancin up a storm, head banging, throwin the devil horns, and the Florida girl was groovin with him, laughing her ass off. A bunch of the three-tooth backwoods mamas started in dancing and soon we couldn't buy a beer, were being handed a new one before we were finished with the last. All 'cause of crazy german dude. There was one kid in there who would talk to us before the ACDC went on the box. I still wouldn't go to Erwin alone, and I was hitching outside Johnson City to get back to the trail after a resupply and some dickwad drilled me in the back of the head with a half-empty Big Gulp at about 40mph. It gets worse a little farther north. Near Roan Mtn, TN and Elk City, NC the local have been known to string fishhooks on clear monofilament fishing line at head height across the trail because they don't like the hikers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Will - everytime you post something about the south and rednecks I think of this and just crack up. Have you ever read Deliverance? I had to read it in my Romantic Lit class in college. That was one disturbing book. More so than the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 ehmmic said: Will - everytime you post something about the south and rednecks I think of this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 scrambler said: A naked, samurai sword-wielding martial arts expert screaming, "I'm God! I'm immortal" hacked his wife to death yesterday in a blood-soaked Bronx rampage, police said. The stocky martial-arts black belt swung so hard, he bent one sword on her head - and also nearly sliced through her neck and cut off her left hand, cops said. In the days of yore in Japan, Samurai swords were tested by how many servants they could slice in half with a single swing. A five-man sword was considered an excellent sword. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluck Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 (edited) ehmmic said: Unfortunately mental health is not a priority in this country. Started back in the 80s when many state mental hospitals let nearly everyone who could marginally be classified as funtional out to save money. The general public is not educated about mental health and because they are afraid of it, have the attitude of our beloved cracked and trask. "Just kill the MFers!" I'll jump in here......... This is absolutely the crux of my argument on liberalism. Liberals are generally people I admire due to the size of their hearts. They want everything to be happy and fair, which is cool. God bless them for their love of everyone else's family and all the down troden regular guys who never get a fair shake in life. Where I differ is that I take a point of view that I, not any government or some goverment funded program, am responsible for me and my well being. And, I am also responsible for my immediate and extended family. If I lose my job, it isn't the government's problem and I don't expect to have taxpayers feel sorry for me and give me money. If I dump a cup of hot coffee in my lap, I'm an idiot, it isn't McDonald's fault for giving me the hot coffee I paid for at the drive thru window. If I screw up and commit a crime, I am responsible... not some evil corporation, president Bush or un-seen chemicals in the water. If I have a family member who is mentally ill, it isn't the government's reasponsibility or tax payers dollars job to take care of them. It is my moral and natural obligation. Sure, mental health care may be expensive, but it doesn't fit in with my value system that you find a way to take care of a family member, including mentally challenged people, only if it is inexpensive or the government pays all the bills. If everyone focused more energy on taking care of themselves and their own families, we wouldn't need our government to be the white knight of domenstic problems. And, for all of those people who think that people who commit savage violent crimes shouldn't be pushined because they might be mentally ill... here is another thought. I will concede that anyone who chops up anyone else with a sword is crazy as hell. But, as much as it pains me to say it, I'm with Trask on this, I think it is insane not to punish folks who commit this kind of crime. Seems way crazier to me to have innocents pay bills to keep sword wielding lunatics, in some nice place where they can receive lots of therapy and drugs. Bet the family of the woman who got choped up, whether liberal or conservative by nature, agree. Edited December 9, 2003 by cluck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Hey cluck I'm all for personal responsibility. Unfortunately the "rules" weren't written by you and I, and life is not that simple. Paying for good mental health treatment for someone who is seriously mentally ill is very hard to do for the average family even if there is health insurance. Many families do step up to the plate and try to get help for their loved ones, but unfortunately this is not always the case. What are families supposed to do when they can't pay the bill for the hospital or for the medication needed to keep the person grounded in reality? Mental illness is way more complex than you seem to understand. What happens when the family lives hundreds of miles away and doesn't realize that something is wrong with their loved one? Or when the mentally ill loved one drops out of their family's lives? My comment about government mental hospitals does not imply that I think that mentally ill people should be committed at the gov'ts expense. Unfortunately many mentally ill homeless people who were on the streets in the early 90s had previously been in mental hospitals in the 80s. The gov't released them without a sufficient system in place to continue to see they received treatment on an outpatient basis. This reflected their priorities to save money and was not a responsible way to treat these people. Do you think that people who can't afford health insurance should be turned away from the hospital doors as well when they have some non-mental health issue? Should access to the latest treatments and medications be reserved for those people who can afford them? You seem to have a fairly simplistic view of how this country operates (or should operate). And the whole eye for an eye thing is pretty barbaric, especially where mental illness and crime cross paths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluck Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 (edited) Agree, my views of the world are very simplistic. And am lucid enough to realize the world doesn't work the way I wish it did. Some more insight into my simple brain. How hard is to too hard to work to take care of someone you love? How many jobs are too many and how hard would you look for a job that offers health care benefits if health care is what is needed for a family member? What is too big a sacrifice to pay for medication if that is what is needed? Certainly giving up all luxuries and vices is not too much to ask. Show me someone who has absolutely done everything in their power to make ends meet and still can't and I'm all for giving them help. So, no, I wouldn't turn away someone without health care because they couldn't afford it. But, I want to know they couldn't afford it and aren't just dodging their own responsibility or looking for someone else to pick up the tab. My experience is that for every bad luck story there is an equal or greater # of people who don't take responsibility and are looking for the easy solution to their problems. So, yes, I would turn away those who are lazy or negligent in taking responsibility for their own lives. On the violent crime thing, I guess we can agree to disagree. Having had two close friends who were murdered senslessly, I can't understand people who don't see a valid connection between crime, resposibility and punishment. It doesn't have to be capital pushishment, but again, my simple brain can't see any way how someone who commits murder doesn't forfeit the basic rights assoicated with humanity and doesn't deserve punishment rather than understanding and care. Edited December 9, 2003 by cluck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 "How hard is to too hard to work to take care of someone you love? How many jobs are too many and how hard would you look for a job that offers health care benefits if health care is what is needed for a family member? What is too big a sacrifice to pay for medication if that is what is needed? Certainly giving up all luxuries and vices is not too much to ask. " How hard? Very hard. People with severe mental illness and/or substance abuse can literally tear families apart. All too often, the person is turned out in order to save what's left of the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 life in the wild kingdom, we are animals ... remember? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 ehmmic said: Will - everytime you post something about the south and rednecks I think of this and just crack up. Have you ever read Deliverance? I had to read it in my Romantic Lit class in college. That was one disturbing book. More so than the movie. The Duel f'in RULEZ! Never read the book, but saw the movie and have seen the albino kid all grown up...still lives in the area. I've also got a polaroid of me sitting on the General Lee car of the Dukes of Hazzard at about 7 years old. YEEEEEE HAAAAWWW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtguide Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 ehmmic said: The guy could have been really high on drugs too, but if he was mentally ill they won't be able to prosecute him in the same way as if he were sane at the time of the murder. Most schizophrenics are more of a danger to themselves than to others. There are exceptions though and it is sad when someone has some form of psychotic break that results in others getting killed. Unfortunately mental health is not a priority in this country. Started back in the 80s when many state mental hospitals let nearly everyone who could marginally be classified as funtional out to save money. The general public is not educated about mental health and because they are afraid of it, have the attitude of our beloved cracked and trask. "Just kill the MFers!" A truly tragic episode.Regarding the release of mental patients in the early 80's,this was in large part due to Reagan/Bush era cuts in federal funding to states for mental health programs,which were deemed "non-essential",and "pork".Many thousands of seriously mentally ill patients were released on their own recognizance,with bus tickets to their last known adresses or the adresses of relatives,who were seldom,if at all,informed of the release.Not suprisingly,a great many of these people,being incapable of managing their daily lives in the outside world,wound up in places and situations that were confusing ,frightening and dangerous both to themselves and the public in general.At the time this program(it was a federal as well as a state action) took place,I was living in Pinedale,Wyoming;and I will never forget the numbers of these people who began to mysteriously show up in our area,totally disoriented,displaying a variety of bizarre behaviors.Winters in Pinedale are extremely severe,and we had a number of incidents where these people were found frozen to death.I myself picked up several people on the highway,stumbling along in the snow at night,in the borrow pit,during blizzards, when I was driving the snowplow for Sublette county.The town and the county had no funds or facilities to handle these people,and most were given a meal and a bed in the jail over night and sent on their way when daylight or weather permitted.I remember a number of pretty hardcased tough old conservative ranchers and cowboys who were touched by the plight of these folks and offered room and board for those who were able to do a little work around a ranch;and several of these are still around from what I hear,(and not as crazy as some of those who've lived there all their lives,as the local joke goes)and I know that more than a few hardcore conservative Republicans came to reconsider their views due to this ugly episode. Reagan signed the bill that began this nasty business,and I consider him directly responsible for the beginning of the descent of our state and national mental health system into a medieval dark ages.I find it to be a rough,swift,and great good justice that he himself has now descended into the pit of Alzheimer's."Do unto others..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Almost like divine retribution in a Greek tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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