ScottP Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 It's time to get a new pair of bindings. I do about equal amounts of lift and backcountry skiing. I currently ski on a pair of Riva classics using some Garmont CXA plastics. I was looking at getting either the G3 Targa T/9 or the BD O2. Care to share experiences with either binding, good or bad? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Voile Three pin cable (hotwire) is my favorite set up for the ski that goes both inbound and out. Here's why: Yesterday we toured up to Herman Saddle. I took the cables off and just three pinned it, making for a lighter, smoother, more flexible tour. When we got to the top, I decided to leave the cables off because the powder was so light and deep. Without the cables there is less tip dive and more flexibility. Three pin alone is superb for powder and corn conditions Plus, if you can combine it with the CRB (Complete Releasable Binding) set up and have the ability to snap out of your skis in knee wrenching falls and avalanches. Voile is so time proven you can't go wrong. No chinzy, out-sourced parts that break. The only down side is cleaning the packed snow off of the toe of your boots so you can get it on the three pins. BTW The Voile Three Pin Hardwire is also $40 cheaper than either the T/9 or the 02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted November 23, 2003 Author Share Posted November 23, 2003 You're points are good ones. I hadn't seen the removable cable aspect of the Viole' bindings (most of my research so far has been on-line.) The idea that you can remove the cable for skinning up slope, touring and skiing powder is very appealing, as is the ability to still be attached to your ski if the cable blows. Thanks for the suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraysovereign Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 The 3-pin/cable option is a nice one for B/C simply for the redundancy. If your cable blows, you can still make it out on the pins, and if you rip out of your pins (rare, but it can happen) you still have the cables. If you somehow blow both cables and pins, then the SAR team can just tuck your skis into the chopper next to your stretcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancegranite Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Check out the Ultimate Tele Binding, manufactured locally. The binding is the brainchild of Armond Dubque,a Stevens pass local.This is a completely different animal, a step in binding that features a 6 point toe crampon. The UTB has been in devlopment for years and was used this year on the first ski descent of Mt. Hunter. The Ultimate Telemark Binding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Quite cheap, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 ScottP said: You're points are good ones. I hadn't seen the removable cable aspect of the Viole' bindings (most of my research so far has been on-line.) The idea that you can remove the cable for skinning up slope, touring and skiing powder is very appealing, as is the ability to still be attached to your ski if the cable blows. If you set it up right, you don't have to remove the cable/hotwire for skinning up. just lock it on the backside of the heel plate riser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted November 23, 2003 Author Share Posted November 23, 2003 russ said: ScottP said: You're points are good ones. I hadn't seen the removable cable aspect of the Viole' bindings (most of my research so far has been on-line.) The idea that you can remove the cable for skinning up slope, touring and skiing powder is very appealing, as is the ability to still be attached to your ski if the cable blows. If you set it up right, you don't have to remove the cable/hotwire for skinning up. just lock it on the backside of the heel plate riser. I didn't know you could do that. When you say "set it up right", do you mean the cable settings, or the heel plate riser? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 I'm meant having the cable/hotwire adjusted to the right length for your boots. Then mount the heel piece the correct distance back, so the throw of the cable/hotwire fits behind the heel piece. The heel riser has a rear lip to help hold it in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 I keep forgetting about that never tried it Russ, do you think it would stay down while one was making turns? Have you tried it that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Billygoat said: Voile Three pin cable (hotwire) is my favorite set up for the ski that goes both inbound and out. Here's why: Yesterday we toured up to Herman Saddle. I took the cables off and just three pinned it, making for a lighter, smoother, more flexible tour. When we got to the top, I decided to leave the cables off because the powder was so light and deep. Without the cables there is less tip dive and more flexibility. Three pin alone is superb for powder and corn conditions Plus, if you can combine it with the CRB (Complete Releasable Binding) set up and have the ability to snap out of your skis in knee wrenching falls and avalanches. Voile is so time proven you can't go wrong. No chinzy, out-sourced parts that break. The only down side is cleaning the packed snow off of the toe of your boots so you can get it on the three pins. BTW The Voile Three Pin Hardwire is also $40 cheaper than either the T/9 or the 02 I have the Voile bindings with releasable setup, and found that I really had to crank on the tension beyond the suggested setting before I could ski without it releasing. Now, I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulB Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 ScottP said: I was looking at getting either the G3 Targa T/9 or the BD O2. Care to share experiences with either binding, good or bad? Thanks. The O2 was conceived as the second generation Targa by one of the designers after he left G3. As such, I would expect them to be similar but I've never skied O2's, just T/9's, Riva 2's and Riva Z's. Check out Telemarktips.com and do a search. The binding debates are endless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 ScottP, go to telemarktips.com and check out the binding reviews in the DrTelemark section. I will give a second (third?) vote for the Voile 3-pin hardwires. Time-tested, simple, durable, reliable, and they ski very well. Personally I think the Targa is an overhyped binding. The O2 has not yet seen a full year on the market, and with BD's binding woes of the past, I would avoid them (personal opinion) until the good word comes back from the street. Supposedly they SKI very well, but how do they hold up? Sounds risky to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Billygoat said: I keep forgetting about that never tried it Russ, do you think it would stay down while one was making turns? Have you tried it that way? I haven't tried making turns with the hardwire down. The spring tubes would ride really low and might be knock loose on a turn. But I don't think it would hurt anything to give it a shot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 I would only do it in corn or powder. Probably no worries in the pow but I imagine that they would get popped in the corn (no funny intended) Both the Targa and the 02 have had breakage problems that the Voile three pin just has not had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 anytime you are have climbing wires up with the voile 3 pin/cable bindings the cable can ride on the deck of the ski and not on your heel. Skiing without the cable deep powder makes the tele dance brings snow nymphs to your heels, so devine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Thanks Beck! That was very poetic. Now go back to sleep... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Parker Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Since I just moved into the plastic boot world, I went through my own binding woes. Since I never experienced tip dive or "rocker launch" with leather boots, cables never bothered me. Billy goat makes a good point about freeing the heel more in light powder. My only counter to that stems from personal experience. I fell in a tree well once and it was scary. What I discovered was that I couldn't get to my toes to undo the bail and even if I could have undone the bail with a pole, the pins still hold my boots. To it wasn't exactly easy to get one of my skis off to extract myself. I imaging being swept up in an avalanche and being partially buried could pose the same problem. I determined escaping my skis would be easier with just cables and no pins, so I don't like pins anymore. The G-3 has been a great binding for me so far. I use the middle weight cables. Shall we discuss the pros and cons of risers now??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatskiclimbsail Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 The outing club tele ski rack went through 3 or 4 brands / models before said "to h*ll with it!" and bought all Voile 3 pin cable bindings. They still broke once in awhile, but usually it was what I called "operator error". Highly reccomended, the optional release system works extremely well (try half a dozen beginners on NE "snow" to test a release system). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climberchris01 Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 I think that the G3's are amazing, they are light and have a neutral stride while touring, yet provide an amazing amount of performance for the way down. If you ski at all hard, do not use the three pin aspect, they will rip right out of your boots, even in powder or corn, but if you are slow and new and make grandpa turns then they might be ok. If you haul ass, cable is definately the way to go, I would never rely on some tiny pins to hold my sticks to my feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Hey chris, I ski plenty hard and I have never ripped out of my three pins. Plus if I know it is going to be steep and heavy I attach my compression (Hardwire) cables. The G3 and the 02 both have had breakage problems that the Voiles have not. I ski inbounds and out with plastic boots and I ain't no "Grandpa" Read the whole thread next time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Ah yes, here's the part where people start insulting the abilities of others because they don't use the same gear. If you can rip a boot out a 3-pin cable, you are a rare skier indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonanon Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Hell, I am a 'Grandpa' and I've broken every part there is to break on the Voile CRBs. Any advantages of having 3-pins and cables are kinda beside the point when you break off the side of the toecup (twice) or the spring cartridge casing cracks and spits your release spring out into the snow (3 times.) I got so tired of doing field repairs I gave up on releaseables entirely. Saves on duct tape. If the question is O2s or Targas, T9s are the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Voile's CRBs and their releasable have some issues. A better choice in releasable BC bindings is to go with the Voile 3-pin cable on top of Rottefella releasable plate. If you can't ride deep pow in three pins, maybe you don't know how to ski in balance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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