lummox Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 but never six. an a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 the mysterious 'four' hex placement sizes revealed: with a twist to the right with a twist to the left with no twist and sideways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I think the material on the drilled hexes was thicker than the current material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I think PP may be right about that. Â I don't think I want to place my hex's in the "no twist" configuration mentioned by Lummox, at least not in anything like a parallel sided crack where the differences in the dimension between twist-right or twist-left and no-twist are significant. Sounds good on paper, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 There may be three stages of hex design then. Because I have a solid #11 and a drilled #11. The drilled one is clearly thinner walled. It also has a asymetrical hex (to enhance "camming" but it cams like a cantelope)whereas the old hex is symetrical . So maybe that is why there used to be only three ways to place a hex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Bug -When did you get them? I don't remember Hex ever being symetrical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I have some old symmetrical ones that I believe were made by Clog, and also some that are round that may have been made by CMI or somebody like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I meant made by Choiunard. We shoudl all get together an create an image gallery of old gear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I'm not sure, but I think the ones in that old Chouinard catalog that you posted the link to may be "symmetrical" too. The text says they fit in three different attitudes, but the pictures look rather symmetrical. I'm going to have to go home and rifle through my box of old hardware and take a look to see if I may have some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 A small alpine rack to me means-  3-5 stoppers 2-3 tri-cams (red and pink included Optional would be one of the blues) orange, yellow, green metolius cams  If the route is not often climbed or rarely and it's longer than 800 feet and 5.8 I might bring a piton or 3. 2 kbs and one la or baby angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Peter_Puget said: I meant made by Choiunard. We shoudl all get together an create an image gallery of old gear! Â do a search for Museum of Nuts some guy in Corsica has one of everything ever made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 These beauties are in Mattp's museam of nuts: Â Â The left is an SMC camlock, and it was actually an "advanced" model that came out some time ca late '70's. It has channels on the straight side so it works somewhat like a tricam. The middle one is a (symmetrical) Chouinard hexcentric #6, purchased about 1972, and the right one is made by Peck and roughly the same vintage. Â Where's your picture, PP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 The peck is in the old Royal Robbins rockcraft book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I have the SMC Camlock and the Peck but not a hex like that. Here is a picture of a drilled and a non drilled. The drilled was 70's vintage and the non drilled either late 70's or early 80's. The drilled cam is thicker than the non drilled. It is not just because of the sizes I chose to compare. Â Â And for grins here is a prototype TCU model by Metolius and an early Alien by CCH. Â PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I went to the Nuts Museum and found this photo for Dwaynerkassidy! Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 In 1971, Yvon Chouinard threw on to the market the Regular Hexentric invented by himself and Tom Frost. A much improved Hexagon, it was however still symmetrical and did not allow more than three different settings. The real revolution landed in 1974 with the Polycentric Hexentric which, this time, allowed four settings. A Norwegian, Tomas Carlström, had given the idea to the Chouinard / Frost team some time before. Trying to make copies of Chouinard symmetrical Hexentrics himself, Tomas Carlström took two old Clog Hexagons and machined them. But since his tools were not very precise, he was first disappointed by the asymmetrical chocks he had made. Then, EUREKA, he discovered that they worked in one more position than the original Chouinard Hexentrics. In 1972, Chouinard increased his hardware line with a set of seven Stoppers which were to be the subject of many improvements during the following years and become in the USA, the reference for the pyramidal nut. In 1973 and 1975, he produced the Tube Chocks which covered the four to six inch offwidth cracks and the Crack?n-Ups that protected the ultra-thin vertical cracks. With Chouinard Equipment, the Americans had all the necessary tools for their new ethic, all nuts or hammerless.  there's the mystery 4 placements right there  see nut museum for more info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Great link Dru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Peter_Puget said: Bug -When did you get them? I don't remember Hex ever being symetrical. 1973 or 74. Alpine, Camlocks never "worked like tri-cams". I know.... They were supposed to. But they were one of the most dangerous gimmics to ever be put on the shelves. They slipped out of any camming situation with any force not pefectly aligned. I still have one that I carry sometimes as a leave piece. But I would only use it like a static stopper, wedged in tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Good timeline Dru. I think however saying C & F invented the hex is a bit of a stretch given that the Brits were using nuts (as in nuts and bolts) years before. Â Â I have some crack-n-ups somewhere. Those things were scary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Crack N Ups rock my dome. I have a set of 6 or 7 and use em every time I go aiding. Way better than beaks for hand placing in thin cracks! More bomber than cam hooks in cracks with constrictions! Â PP - I don't think a machine nut can be considered a Hex since it is small, symmetrical, and narrow. Most of the British ones from the 50's were square anyways not hexagonal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Crack n ups = a small hook aimed directly at your cheek! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I used crack-n-ups successfully way back when, but it has been many years since I did any real aid climbing and I gotta say, they did send me pitching into space without warning a couple of times. I'm not sure they are likely to pop out and stab you in the forehead, but hard aid climbing just plain scares me anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 mattp said: I used crack-n-ups successfully way back when, but it has been many years since I did any real aid climbing and I gotta say, they did send me pitching into space without warning a couple of times. I'm not sure they are likely to pop out and stab you in the forehead, but hard aid climbing just plain scares me anyway. hard aid is like lsd: you cant come down even if you want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 "Hard aid is like Pringles - once you pop you can't stop" -Chongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Most everyone here has probably already seen them, but Second Ascent has a really cool display of old hexes (and other curious gear). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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