Dreamer TR or GGB needs more parking

[catbirdseat]

Ade and I went up to Darrington today to climb Dreamer. As we were setting out from the car a second car pulled up- on a Thursday! We hastened up the trail to get on the route. Oops, there was a red Jeep that had forged a little further up the road than most folks. That's three parties now!

 

Got on the route behind the owners of the Jeep, a French couple. I've never heard so much shouting in my life. I couldn't tell what she was saying because I don't speak French, but I am sure it was very important.

 

As we started the third pitch, the third pair arrived. They went up one pitch and then retreated. We couldn't figure it out. We watched them arrive back at the base of the route. Hey, there's four there now! So now a fourth party shows up. The third party goes home. After killing what must have been an hour the fourth party heads up the route. It's now 11 am. Not exactly an alpine start. We're on the 5th pitch.

 

We top out at 4 pm with the fourth party 4 pitches below. As we rappel past them, they decide to bail ("this is great", says Ade, "we'll have some to free our ropes if they get stuck"). At the packs we meet up with them and it turns out that one is none other than Ken Ford of cc.com. I thought I recognized him from Pub Club!

 

Ken said the party that left after one pitch did so because we (Ade and I) were on the route. It was their second failed attempt on Dreamer. I couldn't figure out how we would affect them five pitches up the route, but go figure (I didn't see so much as a pebble fall all day).

 

To summarize my thoughts about Dreamer.

1) It oftentimes seems like a long way to the first bolt

2) The bolts seem to always be after a hard move rather than before.

3) I need to get a little better before I dare lead the crux pitches (#s 5-7).

4) If so many people show up on a Thursday, how many are going to show up on a Saturday? Gonna need more parking.

[Ade]

"this is great", says Ade, "we'll have some to free our ropes if they get stuck"

 

'Tis true. Aren't I the self-serving little shit.

 

2) The bolts seem to always be after a hard move rather than before.

Not completely true. The 5.9+ move has a bolt right next to it. Very convenient.

 

All in all and excellent route and definitely a lot better than a day at work - but then what isn't (other than being kidnapped and tortured by Hezbollah)?

 

 

[slothrop]

Nice job, fellas.

[jshamster]

Nice job guys. One of my faves is WA.

 

I have heard that the route can get crowded, but in my four times up there I have only seen one other party.

 

I think the bolts are in perfectly logical places if you think about drilling on lead on a slab.

 

Glad y'all had fun.

[catbirdseat]

You have to consider where I'm coming from as one who is just getting to the 5.9 lead level. The 5.10+ climbers probably don't sweat it at all.

 

The only bolt I have a real complaint about is that first one on the alternate bolted 5.8 route to the left on pitch 8. It is 25-30 feet from the belay. A 60 ft leader fall onto the belay would be very bad. I didn't have the cahones, so I backed off and went the "dirty" 5.7 trad way straight up. It wasn't so dirty after all and protected adequately (tricams, nuts, aliens).

 

The way I figured it, a leader fall 8 pitches up Dreamer could have ruined our whole day.

[mattp]

Brian, there is a crack right off the belay on that alternate pitch 8. All you had to do was step up a few feet off route and you could have plugged right in. I thought people would complain if I installed a bolt where there was natural pro available. That traverse is 5.6.

[lummox]

mattp said:

I thought people would complain . . .

slavery can be an attitude also.

[catbirdseat]

Somehow I never saw the crack and neither did Ade. Since we thought it was all bolts, I didn't have the rack with me. It might have made a big difference. The moves weren't that hard, but by then I was getting tired. Chalk one up for experience.

[mattp]

Lum-

"Complaining" does follow from a certain state of mind. I knew that there would be climbers like Brian who would not notice the off route crack just above, because they'd be standing there looking at the 25 foot traverse and the most obvious path accross there does not go near the crack. For this reason, I think it would have been justifiable to add the extra bolt but I chose not to -- and the reason had more to do with the fact that I didn't want to install a bolt that would piss people off than it did with the idea that the bolt did not belong. So far we have managed to avoid any kind of bolt wars at Darrington, and I hope to keep it that way.

[Jopa]

mattp said:

Lum-

"Complaining" does follow from a certain state of mind. I knew that there would be climbers like Brian who would not notice the off route crack just above, because they'd be standing there looking at the 25 foot traverse and the most obvious path accross there does not go near the crack. For this reason, I think it would have been justifiable to add the extra bolt but I chose not to -- and the reason had more to do with the fact that I didn't want to install a bolt that would piss people off than it did with the idea that the bolt did not belong. So far we have managed to avoid any kind of bolt wars at Darrington, and I hope to keep it that way.

 

although my opinion is limited in experience, it seems that the bolts out at darrington were placed/replaced with a lot of thought. the difficult moves are protected by a bolt where gear is not available, and the easier climbing is usually run-out. this is nice because even the easier climbing becomes somewhat "thought provoking".

[ken4ord]

I pretty much agree with catbirdseat summary. It was an awesome day out on some great slab climbing, damn it been way too long since I had done some slab climbing and there was definitely some spots where I wasn't sure if I was going to vibrate off, also being sore and tired from climbing Eldo the day before didn't help. I thought we going to be cragging hence our alpine start, but we still had a great time up there. Now I need to get back and get on to the real route and finish it. We ended up on Safe Sex and didn't realize what we were missing out on until we rapped the route. Can't wait to get back and do others up in that area.

[catbirdseat]

There was an off route crack that I did see and that must be the one you were referring to. I was afraid that if I used it the rope drag would get out of hand. With a double length sling, it might not have been all that bad.

[Ade]

Personally I'd rather see some complaints about "missing" bolts and longish runouts than I would overbolting and bolt-wars. I've not had any nasty surprises at Darrington although some of the pitches I've done there would have seemed pretty serious if I'd been leading right at my limit, but then I pretty much suck at slabs. Even then Dreamer is in no way hideously run out. That's the nature of the area and you have to bear it in mind when picking a route.

 

I wouldn't want a precident set whereby additional bolts were added just to make the route that much easier for someone leading at their limit. I've done routes where more bolts would have improved my comfort level but I don't think that's the answer. There are lots of well protected routes, bolts or otherwise, at all grades.

 

Imagine the result if everyone who did Dreamer got to add a bolt where they were sketched. It would be really sad to see some of these routes altered, as in retro-bolted. They seem to have been rebolted/equipped with a lot of thought to preserve the adventurous and sometimes bold character of the original routes.

 

 

 

 

[slothrop]

Ade said:

I wouldn't want a precident set whereby additional bolts were added just to make the route that much easier for someone leading at their limit. I've done routes where more bolts would have improved my comfort level but I don't think that's the answer. There are lots of well protected routes, bolts or otherwise, at all grades.

 

I agree. Well-protected routes nearby that offer similar climbing are on 3 O'Clock Rock. Silent Running, for example. GGB is a bit more wild and there's no reason not to keep it that way.

[Sol]

When jshamster and I did that one a couple of years ago, that crux pitch was my first 5.9 lead ever. if you think darrington is run-out go check out tuolumne meadows, or even closer to home, static point. everytime I go out to darrington I applaud the first ascensionists and subsequent retro-bolters in their creation of safe, fun-routes, with well-thought out protection. one question: climbed total soul via the superfly pitch this summer. was that bolted on lead? with hooks? just wondering.

[mattp]

I agree with what you wrote, Ade, but I think you don't know the history of Dreamer. It was retro bolted (pro and belay bolts were added) immediately after the first ascent, then again in the late '80's, and again late '90's. People are still calling for more bolts, so maybe about 2008 somebody will go back and add some more.

 

Frosty - We did not bolt Superfly on the lead. If we had, there would be a bolt that you would clip from standing in that little scoop just before the crux, and you'd then have to run it out to

some stance around the corner past the crux. Instead, what we attempted to do was to bolt it so that you can not cheat the crux, but so that there is no really severe fall potential (you can still take a 20 footer). We also tried to put the bolts in a relatively straight line, because with the deviation lower down on the pitch and again after that crux section, we knew the rope drag was going to be a serious issue. The result is a little contrived, but that is what we were trying to do, anyway.