Dwayner Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 RUMR writes: "SO...My question to you is: "should i be forbidden from working a route that is "over" my head? What if i find that fun? To get on something, get completely shut down, go through a process to figger it out, and then do it w/ no falls?" And i still have no where claimed to be a "5.13" climber, or any other level at that..." Dude...where do you think you live????? Who's going to forbid you from such a thing???? Freedom rings because you have the right to dangle and thrash all you want! And I have the right to think it's weak. Quote
Figger_Eight Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 SO...My question to you is: "should i be forbidden from working a route that is "over" my head? What if i find that fun? To get on something, get completely shut down, go through a process to figger it out, and then do it w/ no falls?" And i still have no where claimed to be a "5.13" climber, or any other level at that... I think the point is simply that if you want to get "in over your head" you would have to do so on routes where the bolts aren't very far apart. You wouldn't do this at Darrington, and you certainly wouldn't do this on gear. Go to Smith or Vantage and have at it, however if this were everyone's MO you would find a heckuva lot more bolts at climbing areas, which I think everyone agrees sucks. Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 ok...my bad...should've used "disapprove of" instead of "forbidden" You know one of the coolest things i ever saw was this woman trying to get a redpoint on Magic Light (yeah I know, its all dumbed-down and all)...she'd been working it for ever...kept gettin' scared and grabbing a bolt (must be a lack of testosterone, )...finally, she said screw it, redlined for the chains, skipped the bolt she'd been trying to clip and sent... Sharma was just up the way and was completely spell bound by her "weak" (as you put it) performance... Man, I agree w/ Peter, GET A LIFE! and that's not meant as an insult...its a suggestion... Sheesh...i'm gonna go back to 5.6's cuz i humiliated myself on that wicked 5.7 waaaay back when... Quote
erik Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 I HAVE AND I KNOW OTHERS WHO HAVE TAKEN REPEATED FALLS AND EVEN "TOOK" ON HARD GEAR LINES(WELL MY WEREN'T HARD) SO I CAN SEE PEOPLE USING THIS "WEAK" METHOD. THO I HAVE SEEN THE SAME PERSON ONSIGHT .13 GEAR ROUTES AS WELL. SO WHERE DOES HE FALL INTO ALL THIS? IS HE A CRAPPY CLIMBER LIKE MYSELF? CUZ HE HAS USED "WEAK" METHODS? I AM A CRAPPY CLIMBER? I SEEM TO BE ENJOYING MYSELF EVEN ON THE SHITTY ROUTES. DWYANER TO REPEATDLY STATE THAT OTHERS ARE BAD CLIMBERS OR PRACTICE IN A BAD STYLE IS BORING AND SOMEWHAT OF AN ANTAGONISTIC STANCE. ARE YOU ATTEMPTING TO MAKE THEM THINK? MOST PEOPLE WHO CLIMB NEVER PUT UP ROUTES. WHY DONT YOU CALL OUT THE BOLTERS? AND YES DREAMER IS A SPORT CLIMB. I FELT LIKE IT WAS A CLIP UP. AND HOW COME SPACED BOLTS ARE MORE PROUD THEN NON SPACED? I TRY NOT TO THINK OF THE GEAR EVER AND FOCUS ON THE CLIMBING...CERTAINLY NOT ALWAYS, BUT I LIKE TO TRY MY HARDEST! ARE YOU? Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 (edited) Figger_Eight said: SO...My question to you is: "should i be forbidden from working a route that is "over" my head? What if i find that fun? To get on something, get completely shut down, go through a process to figger it out, and then do it w/ no falls?" And i still have no where claimed to be a "5.13" climber, or any other level at that... I think the point is simply that if you want to get "in over your head" you would have to do so on routes where the bolts aren't very far apart. You wouldn't do this at Darrington, and you certainly wouldn't do this on gear. Go to Smith or Vantage and have at it, however if this were everyone's MO you would find a heckuva lot more bolts at climbing areas, which I think everyone agrees sucks. Ummm...no...its pretty ez to stick a tr on some, not all, stuff that is physically over my head...its also pretty ez to aid up hard-ass cracks... His point really has nothin' to do w/ bolts...it has to do w/ working a route outside of your current capability...I think? Actually, i don't understand him at all...he doesn't have respect for other people's opinions on what they consider "fun" and has to take lame potshots...Why rip a boulderer as they NEVER put bolts in (even one that is projecting something?)? Why rip anyone???? I tend to agree that overbolting is stupid although i don't care enough to get on a soapbox about it... Edited July 9, 2003 by RuMR Quote
Dwayner Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 RUMR..."Get a life" is rude, man. You have NO idea what a life I have! ERIK...I THOUGHT THIS CC.COM WAS ABOUT DISCUSSION OF IDEAS....WHETHER ENVIRONMENTAL, ETHICAL OR STYLISTIC ONES. RIGHT?? EVEN [shudder]UNPOPULAR ONES. YOU'RE A MODERATOR, YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT. IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN OTHER PERSPECTIVES. I AM QUITE CONVINCED THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THOSE NEW TO CLIMBING, REALLY AREN'T AWARE OF MANY OF THE ISSUES. AT THE LEAST, ONE MIGHT SAY THAT BY READING THESE EXCHANGES, A FEW PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE GAINED AN UNDERSTANDING OF ANOTHER VIEWPOINT ON THE SUBJECT, WHETHER THEY AGREE WITH ME OR NOT. SOME PEOPLE HERE REACT AS IF I OWN ALL THE CLIMBING AREAS AND WRITE ALL THE LAWS AND CAN BAN YOU FROM DOING THINGS I THINK ARE WEAK. COME ON! NO SUCH LUCK! - Dwayner Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Ok...so sorry...how about "Expand your viewpoint?" is that better??? How come you never answer any questions? If you really want us to understand your point of view, answer our questions regarding them! I say its a good thing your elitist attitude doesn't control the cliffs! Nobody would get to enjoy them... Quote
sk Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 (edited) I have been thinking about this all day, while out hiking with the things... there are many diffrent ways to look at ethics and morals. For me I would rather flail on a route at flagstone and french fee, and climb with no style and work on something over my head, than ever climb another route put up be Dave Tivet. So although there are moderates there, and I may even belay my partner on a DT route, I will not set foot on one until I have reason to change my ideas. That is my line in the sand. HERE< NO MORE. Edited July 9, 2003 by Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 what's the matter w/ DT routes for you? I don't know the area, so i'm just asking... Quote
sk Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 RuMR said: what's the matter w/ DT routes for you? I don't know the area, so i'm just asking... he grid bolts, he has no vission, and no respect for the rock or other people. He is not all bad, he has done alot to improve flagstone, but the bolting by him is out of controle in my oppinion. Quote
Dwayner Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 And RUMR again: "he doesn't have respect for other people's opinions on what they consider "fun" and has to take lame potshots..." Sure I do! Do you really expect me and others to agree with or like everything you find fun? I might not agree with your opinion but that doesn't mean I dismiss your right to have one! Gee whiz! Bouldering.....nothing wrong with that as long as the vegetation isn't mangled or petroglyphs destroyed, etc. I just think, personally, that a lot of it is goofy and a waste of (my ) time. Do it all you want, pal.....and throw in one of them wild 'n wacky sit-starts for your buddy Dwayner. Just my opinion. Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 i don't think you have to agree w/ everything, but lose the bitchy stance on it and try to have a decent conversation...every post where i've been a dick to you (and i admit i have been) is because of some stupid richard simmons style slam and is a response...why the slam? Do you expect people to listen when you slam? They are more likely to react... Honestly, pope seems to be able to get his point across better than you because he doesn't always have to put a negative slant on it... PS: I think bouldering sux ass to do (mainly cuz i suck and would rather get some air under me)...but i don't rip people that do it, and am sometimes completely amazed at what a human being can do... Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said: RuMR said: what's the matter w/ DT routes for you? I don't know the area, so i'm just asking... he grid bolts, he has no vission, and no respect for the rock or other people. He is not all bad, he has done alot to improve flagstone, but the bolting by him is out of controle in my oppinion. OK...fair enough... Do you enjoy smith? Do you consider that overbolted? Again, just asking... Quote
Peter_Puget Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Dwayner said:Petey now resorts to his old, mean self accompanied by the use of the word "bullshit"....how articulate. I thought you were more sophisticated. Frankly, this "discussion" is starting to bore me even more than the boring work I am required to do for which I thought this might be an occasional distraction. I'll tell you what, sparky, I'll do the gentlemanly thing and blame this on my inability to write and fully express myself rather than on the inability of you and your fellow sporty's to fully comprehend my points, although the latter is clearly the case.- Dwayner OK poll time:Peter_Puget All Around Mean GuySaying Bullshit in the above post shows PP at his core is mean!Dwayner is simply in errorBu tI do again ask you to answer some of my questions. Here is one thing that confuses me:Dwayner said earlier in the thread:"The issue at its core has to do with excessive use of PERMANENT anchors followed by unlimited rehearsal to wire climbs that would otherwise be way over your head"Dawayner said later:"I don't care if you or anyone else hang-dogs...just don't tell me you're really up for the route or a "5.13" or whatever climber if you require that."Now my simple mind seemed to think that in your first quote you were telling me the issue being discussed was explicitly link to hangdog type tactics. The second seems to refute that understanding.Please clarify and be nice about it won't ya.respectfully,PP Quote
sk Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 RuMR said: Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said: RuMR said: what's the matter w/ DT routes for you? I don't know the area, so i'm just asking... I love smith!!! But I mostly climb in the Gorge I do think it is over bloted, but smith is an entirly difftrent animal Flagstone. Flagstone is a very small peice of rock, well off the road. There are getting to be so many routes squeezed in there that if it continues, the time will come where you can not climb the climb next to some one because it is too close. Smith is a large PARK it already lack the feel of "wilderness" and did by the time I was learning to climb. This a personal moral decision Rumor, not something I expect anyone else to agree with or folow suite. I am choosing this becuase I feel guilty and as though I am doing wrong when I climb his routes. For me that is a signal to stop. I have never had that feeling at Smith.If I did I would change my behavior. he grid bolts, he has no vission, and no respect for the rock or other people. He is not all bad, he has done alot to improve flagstone, but the bolting by him is out of controle in my oppinion. OK...fair enough... Do you enjoy smith? Do you consider that overbolted? Again, just asking... Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Muff: hmmm...well ok... I've taken some pretty huge wingers at smith, so i don't know if i'd agree that its overbolted, but to each his/her own... Quote
Peter_Puget Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Don't confuse sport climbing with grid bolting. they are two different things. PP Quote
Figger_Eight Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 some stupid richard simmons style slam C'mon...the Richard Simmons thing was funny. Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 naw way man...that hurt my feelings...i'm fat! Actually, my point was that he cries if we "insult" him, but its all cool and the gang if he drops bombs... Quote
Peter_Puget Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 maybe the first time well ok the second..........well ok the 20th time was ok.....but the 125th it was starting to get old or be merely a wan insult. Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 come on now...that wasn't an insult! That was humor!!!! [Dripping Sarcasm] See dwayner's over there laughing at himself right now! see him? He's right here --> Quote
minx Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 hmmm...i'm on the way out the door to go clip some bolts. i'm going to have fun. does this make me a bad person? Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 where ya clippin' at?? You have to be a bad person prior to clippin' to be a bad person... You bad? Quote
minx Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 well that depends on who you ask now doesn't it. we're arguing about the where to go and be bad right now. Quote
RuMR Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Ok...i'll go check w/ Trask and see if you're bad... Quote
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