overtraining

[MITllama02]

I was taking a climbing course and the instructors wanted everyone to help carry the rope, which was more weight than I had trained to carry. So I strained to increase my training pack from 44 to 48 lbs over a 5 wk period. I carry this to climb the stairs on Lakeview Blvd (192 steps) once a week for 60-75 min, 2 steps at at time. Before starting the course it had taken me 3 1/2 yrs to get up to 44 lbs and 5 wks to increase the last pound. I also do weights and aerobics 3-4 x /wk and climb nearly every weekend.

Anyway I found it harder and harder to do weekend climbs until a more experienced friend says I overtrained and have to rest. I took it very easy last week (no stairs, no aerobics, half weights) but found on this weekend's climb that this whole overtraining thing is getting to my mind. I can't tell if my tiredness is what I usually would feel or whether I am still overtrained and tired. Part of the problem is that the only way I know I have overtrained this time is not feeling good about working out weekdays (not wanting to start; not reaching my usual resistance and reps), and feeling tired while climbing; my resting heart rate has not changed (that was my previous trusty indicator).

Does anyone have any idea how best to know when you have rested enough after overtraining?

[jon]

If you are in a rest period and are doing some exercise I think the worst thing you can do is lift weights and not do any cardio. Do you feel like your muslces don't have any "snap"/explosiveness? You are then letting broken down compounds and lactic acid fester in tissues without "flushing" you system out with some light cardio. Sounds like you need to introduce yourself to the "rest/recovery day". A recovery day can actually be a long day but at a very low heart rate and level of perceived exersion. The recovery day is actually more beneficial then not doing anything because you are increasing blood flow to your tissues and giving then nutrients needed to repair themselves.

 

Also you could change your workout to make it more enjoyable. I can't think of anything more boring then hiking stairs 3 times a week.

[lummox]

MITllama02 said:

Does anyone have any idea how best to know when you have rested enough after overtraining?

when the beer bottles and pizza boxes strewn around your nest begin to grow green fuzz you have rested enough. time to dig your stinking shoes outta yur lighweight pack and start attacking that nasty foot odor.

[Gary_Yngve]

One simple solution is not to carry such a heavy pack.

 

What all did you have to carry (besides the rope) that made your pack so heavy?

[minx]

jon said:

If you are in a rest period and are doing some exercise I think the worst thing you can do is lift weights and not do any cardio. Do you feel like your muslces don't have any "snap"/explosiveness? You are then letting broken down compounds and lactic acid fester in tissues without "flushing" you system out with some light cardio. Sounds like you need to introduce yourself to the "rest/recovery day". A recovery day can actually be a long day but at a very low heart rate and level of perceived exersion. The recovery day is actually more beneficial then not doing anything because you are increasing blood flow to your tissues and giving then nutrients needed to repair themselves.

 

Also you could change your workout to make it more enjoyable. I can't think of anything more boring then hiking stairs 3 times a week.

 

Jon is right on the money here. Very very very few people are actually "overtrained" such a myth that i don't even want to get into a rant about it. Truth is easy/light effort days are a very important component to a good work out routine. And for dog's sake shake up that routine! If your muscles are fatigued it's better to get out and do a little something each day than it is to sit around. You get into the habit of not doing anything and you're doing nothing to maintain hard earned fitness you've gained.

 

Sometimes you go through a period of not improving on what you've achieved but don't go too far back.

[Courtenay]

Please also remember the importance of fueling properly -- if you are feeling lethargic and disinterested in your workouts, especially an endurance workout, you may not be getting enough carbs in your diet, believe it or not! Even for people who are trying to lose bodyfat by eating more protein and consuming fewer carbs, it's important to have adequate quick-energy for your climbing days; for more research on this, feel free to look at our review at http://www.bodyresults.com/E2R_HillWalkEnergy.asp . And yes, recovery days are just as important as the work, but it's actually pretty darn tough to overtrain... another indicator you can use besides resting heart rate (+/- 5 beats) is body temp first thing in the morning (if it changes more than .5 degrees it can be another sign; beware, though, if you're female tracking your temp you'll see a spike at ovulation). NO CRASS REMARKS, GUYS! KEEP IT CLEAN!

[MITllama02]

I carry a Dana pack (heavy to begin with but keeps overnight loads from bruising my hip bones), crampons, harness etc (6 carabiners, 1 belay device, 1 pulley, hand and foot prussiks), cooking pot and food for two (my husband carries tent and stove and gas), 2.5 qt water, synthetic sleeping bag (0 degree because I am cold natured) with Goretex cover, shovel (plastic), wands (10), clothes (Goretex jacket and pants, fleece jacket, down sweater, thermal layer that doubles as pjs, 1 pr extra socks & liner socks, 1 thick balaclava, fleece gloves, mitts and overmitts, bandana), helmet, and those sundries (tiny camera and film, glacier glasses, sunscreen, altimeter watch, map and compass, tp and blue bags, headlamp (one that takes AAA batteries to save weight), first aid kit. I don't think it's the food 'cause we eat bread and cheese/sausage for lunch, dried soup & chocolate brownie for dinner, breakfast bars and tea in the morning, and energy bars for mid morning and mid afternoon snacks while climbing, and I carry a small baggy of nuts as the emergency food. Somehow it all adds up to 42 lbs minimum, moving to 48-50 lbs with the rope. I bought the lighter headlamp last winter to save an ounce. Any suggestions are welcome.

[Fence_Sitter]

ditch the belay device! you are talking about glaciers... you odnt need that thing... just learn the munter... or carabiner wrap.... or 'biner brake... that'll save you a lil' weight...

[Bronco]

I'd loose that synthetic bag with goretex cover, that thing must weigh at least 5 pounds. You don't really need a goretex cover if you have a tent and if you wear your clothes to bed you'll be fine in a 2 pound 20 degree down bag.

 

Your rope looks heavy (6-8lbs), if it's a non technical route, consider carrying a half rope (8 - 8.5mm). The pair of mine weigh 9 pounds 8.5 x 60m and I only take one for glaicer stuff.

 

It wouldn't be too hard to find a lighter pack either, look at the Arcteryx Nozone, it carries pretty swell but, you should be able to go even smaller than that like the Khamsin 38 at 2.5lbs.

 

I don't carry fleece on long trips anymore, it takes too much room and forces me to carry a bigger (heavier) pack. Between your Goretex and Down sweater, you should be comfy in most conditions, maybe throw in an extra poly pro shirt if you tend to be cold.

 

Most off the shelf first aid kit's are heavy, mine consists of 20' of duct tape, a small container of ibuprofin and the bandana.

 

Other than that, your list looks fine and 42 pounds is actually a pretty good weight.

[erik]

bronco consider tossing in a few 4x4 sterile pads to help with bleeding..

 

i actually have a few above the suspension in my helmet. that way i always have a few!!! specially since i try not to climb with a pack.....

 

 

[Bronco]

You can use TP in place of unsterile pads if you are a wussie and actually carry TP. Real mountain men use snowballs for that job.

[terrible_ted]

MITllama02 said:

I carry a Dana pack (heavy to begin with but keeps overnight loads from bruising my hip bones), crampons, harness etc (6 carabiners, 1 belay device, 1 pulley, hand and foot prussiks), cooking pot and food for two (my husband carries tent and stove and gas), 2.5 qt water, synthetic sleeping bag (0 degree because I am cold natured) with Goretex cover, shovel (plastic), wands (10), clothes (Goretex jacket and pants, fleece jacket, down sweater, thermal layer that doubles as pjs, 1 pr extra socks & liner socks, 1 thick balaclava, fleece gloves, mitts and overmitts, bandana), helmet, and those sundries (tiny camera and film, glacier glasses, sunscreen, altimeter watch, map and compass, tp and blue bags, headlamp (one that takes AAA batteries to save weight), first aid kit. I don't think it's the food 'cause we eat bread and cheese/sausage for lunch, dried soup & chocolate brownie for dinner, breakfast bars and tea in the morning, and energy bars for mid morning and mid afternoon snacks while climbing, and I carry a small baggy of nuts as the emergency food. Somehow it all adds up to 42 lbs minimum, moving to 48-50 lbs with the rope. I bought the lighter headlamp last winter to save an ounce. Any suggestions are welcome.

1. Lighter pack - You could save 1 - 4# depending on the Dana you have and the pack you go to.

2. Less water. Do you typically drink all of your 2.5 liters of water before you get to snow or camp? If you can refill water along the way (e.g. keep topping off your bottle with snow when you get to snowfields, refill at streams when you pass them, etc...) you can save 2.2# per liter. Drinking a liter at the trailhead can help tremendously. Cutting water seems harsh, but realize that you're currently carrying 5.5# of water - 12% of your pack weight.

3. Crampons. From steel to aluminum can save a full pound. Unless you're front pointing on water ice, aluminum crampons will probably do you fine.

4. Ice axe? One of those old green or black REI axes are about a pound more than something like a Grivel 'Racing' Axe

5. The aforementioned synthetic --> down bag switch. If you have a Gore-Tex cover, it helps alleviate concerns about your down getting wet.

6. Ditto the above on getting rid of the fleece. The stuff is bulky (forcing you to carry a larger capacity (heavier) pack). You have a down jacket and a Gore-Tex coat to keep it dry.

7. Sleeping pad? You didn't mention what you use, but two light z-rests weigh less and insulate more than one Thermarest.

8. Helmet. Lightweight helmets can save 0.5 to 1# over the old standbys.

 

What I've found helpful in the past was to weigh every item I use, research the various low-weight (i.e. high cost...) items for their cost and their actual weight, and then calculate where I get the biggest bang for the buck in weight reduction.

 

You couldn't go wrong by heading down to ProMountain Sports and asking for advice. Cutting pack and wallet weight is something they do very well...

 

-t

 

[jjd]

If you are climbing most weekends, I wouldn't bother with stairs those weeks. The weeks that you don't climb, you might try reducing your pack weight a little and increasing the amount of time you climb the stairs. The whole purpose (in my opinion) of carrying the pack is to train the muscles used in climbing more "realistically". If you are only going for 60-75 minutes and not increasing your time, you will cease to gain endurance. Just a note of caution about two steps at a time: if they are wide steps, you risk overstriding, possibly resulting in an Iliopsoas (hip flexor) injury.

In a typical week, I'll hike one day with a weighted pack. Currently, I ascend approximately 2500-3000 feet at a 1200-1400 foot per hour rate. I use a pack weighing from 50-55 pounds. The day after, I will often boulder and workout with weights (high reps at a rapid pace-one minute between sets and 2-5 minutes between different exercises). The rest of the week, I run 3 days for 5-9 miles each day and workout with weights a couple of days. I almost always give myself two days rest from running after my "pack" workouts.

Over the past year using this formula, I have had great success in improving my endurance. For a good outline of a training regimen, you might check out the Denali training guide on the Alpine Ascents International Website. You can modify it to suit your individual goals and current fitness level. As a final note: I have found that training with a pack 10-20 pounds heavier than what I normally carry on a trip has had huge psychological benefits (as well as physical). I know that if circumstances require me to hike/climb for a long period of time, I have the ability to do so. Plus, when I put my 35 pound pack on my back for a trip after training with 55, it feels incredibly light (kind of like swinging a weighted baseball bat to warm up)!