Jedi Posted January 21, 2004 Posted January 21, 2004 Just thought I would mention as someone did above. I had a red (my favorite) Alien freeze up badly while in the Ruth while climbing Peak 11,300. It was warm during the day and it had gotten pretty cold (12am). snow probably melted on it during the day and then froze in the unit later. I was using it for free climbing. I like the Met's for free climbing and tend to use the Aliens for aid. As far as the ratings are concerned. I would guess (with looking at any other data) that it is because you are comparing 3 lobe units to 4 lobe units? I dunno. I have been looking at my rack for my upcoming trip to AK. Planning on taking my set of Met's and then a couple small Aliens for the aid (TCU size). Hope my luck is a little better this time. Jedi Jedi Quote
Billygoat Posted January 21, 2004 Posted January 21, 2004 Any protection is better than no protection... Quote
catbirdseat Posted January 21, 2004 Posted January 21, 2004 Gear Express publishes 6 kN for the two smallest TCU's whereas REI gives 4.4 kN. Have there been design changes? Quote
jkrueger Posted January 21, 2004 Posted January 21, 2004 Any protection is better than no protection... Not necessarily ... Quote
lummox Posted January 21, 2004 Posted January 21, 2004 cams totally suck in icy cracks. have a great trip. Quote
Billygoat Posted January 21, 2004 Posted January 21, 2004 Any protection is better than no protection... Not necessarily ... Well, mentally... But I see what you mean. I just thought the conversation was going to break down into arguments about minutiae Quote
layton Posted January 22, 2004 Posted January 22, 2004 Just thought I would mention as someone did above. I had a red (my favorite) Alien freeze up badly while in the Ruth while climbing Peak 11,300. It was warm during the day and it had gotten pretty cold (12am). snow probably melted on it during the day and then froze in the unit later. I was using it for free climbing. I like the Met's for free climbing and tend to use the Aliens for aid. As far as the ratings are concerned. I would guess (with looking at any other data) that it is because you are comparing 3 lobe units to 4 lobe units? I dunno. I have been looking at my rack for my upcoming trip to AK. Planning on taking my set of Met's and then a couple small Aliens for the aid (TCU size). Hope my luck is a little better this time. Jedi Jedi I have had similar experience with Aliens freezing up on cold snowy climbs, while my other cams were fine. if you must bring them on these type of routes, i'd keep em in your pockets until your lead. besides that, i'd rather use an alien over a tcu. Quote
David Yount Posted January 22, 2004 Posted January 22, 2004 CCH Aliens, Metolius TCU's, WC Zero's, Lowe Sliding Ball Nuts (Nutz). I have 4 of each, but 5 Nutz. I like each design. For the tightest cracks only my Nutz will fit inside. Also, for the shallowest cracks my Nutz rule. TCU heads are skinnier than Aliens which are skinnier than Zeros. Skinny head is good. It's far easier to visually inspect critically the inner cam on a TCU than on either FCU, especially when using the smaller sizes. The working range of these smallest units is so small that without adequate visual inspection you're placement is at best a hope and prayer. TCU's have the best trigger/spring action, strong but silky and smoothly even throughout the pull. Zeros get nice action. Aliens action quickly degrades. Zeros have the least stiff stem, which is usually preferable in these micro cams. Aliens get trashed far easier and faster; they need more love and upkeep. TCU's have thicker cam lobes than Aliens which are thicker than Zeros. Thick cam lobes is good. Aliens tip out on one side easier than Zeros and TCU's don't tip out. Tipping out a pair of cams on the same side is not good, it can make retrieval challenging. Of all 4 designs the TCU's are quickest for me to place. And sometimes after screwing with FCU and TCU I slot in big BD Micro Stopper or Trango Brassie instead. Visually inspecting a large micro nut can be far more reliable than guessing what's going on with the inner pair of cams in a tight dark crack. --David. Quote
catbirdseat Posted January 22, 2004 Posted January 22, 2004 I've read some good observations, but no one has attempted to answer my original question, which is, "are Aliens really stronger than Metolius TCUs for a given size?" Quote
Peter_Puget Posted January 22, 2004 Posted January 22, 2004 CBS go to RC.com and do a search. In one (I am sure hard to find) thread this very question was asnwered. PP Quote
catbirdseat Posted January 22, 2004 Posted January 22, 2004 I guess this thread sort of addresses the issue. Actual Strength of Gear I think Colorado must be publishing a lab test breaking strength and Metolius a pull out strength. If there are really no standards for testing cams, there ought to be. Quote
willstrickland Posted January 22, 2004 Posted January 22, 2004 CBS a more pertinent question might be: "Is the strength in these pieces a relevant concern?" Why do small cams fail? I'd wager 99.9% of the time it's from poor placement (bad angle, overcammed, walks, etc) or bad rock. It's not as if these things are just blowing apart left and right. IMO: Aid = Aliens (because flexy stem and two-cam placements) Pin Scars = Alien Hybrids (because they're bomber) Free = Metolius (or DMM/Wired Bliss/HB equivalent), Aliens, and if on granite w/scars Hybrids (because being able to mix a custom rack for a route is nice) My own rack is doubles and triples in Metolius TCUs and a set of Hybrids. I had 2 sets of Hybrids but sold one set when strapped for cash...2 sets of hybrids rock for granite aid. I hate the small flex friends. Quote
catbirdseat Posted January 22, 2004 Posted January 22, 2004 Will, that makes a lot of sense. Cams almost always pull out before they break. When people say they prefer to use a piece for aid, it isn't because of it's load capacity, but because that particular piece is harder to place and may require more careful examination and testing. From what I have read the TCU's are easier to examine and determine if they are well-placed than Aliens. Quote
IceIceBaby Posted January 22, 2004 Posted January 22, 2004 Here check this up Broken cam pic And so as this accident at Frog Buttress 8/3/03 Quote
catbirdseat Posted January 22, 2004 Posted January 22, 2004 Yep, I remember that thread. The accident was a result of improperly placed gear. Quote
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