J_Fisher

I went to do Pampas Drifter in October 2000 and found it pretty dissapointing from a climbing perspective. We climbed to about 2/3 to 3/4 height and found nothing but short steps linking up big, heavily vegetated ledges. We had a late start and grew tired of wrestling the shrubbery, so we just rapped from the abundant flora. In retrospect, we may have been pretty off-route, too far to clibers right and not on the face proper. If I remember right, the BB guidebook approach wasn't terribly helpful. Don't head straight towards the crag or you'll end up traversing endless steep shitty sideslopes. Just head straight to the flattish basin below BHP and follow the basin until you're directly below the face. From there head straight up low angel talus to the base. In any event it's a really pretty spot with a lot of solitude given how close you are to the road. Don't know anything about Archer, but there's a TR here: http://www.themarxes.net:8080/blackhorsepoint.html

Re the rope/chain thing: I didn't see it for the designator, but there is very definitely a steel cable (not a chain) that the fang forms around. It's anchored to at least one big tree. And as someone else indicated, the Ouray Ice Park seeds routes this way pretty commonly. The Johnston canyon episode doesn't show it "doesn't work", it just proves you need a strong anchor.

Other than the "RFC" system, none of those look very simple. To convert C to F, double the temp in C, then add 30. Eg. 9 C x 2 +30 equals 48 F. This is never more than a couple degrees off. To convert F to C just reverse the process. (duh.)

April my arse . . . http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/regions/northcentral/communication/032101-N.Casdades%20Opens.htm

I've been under the impression that the Valhalla is pretty much the standard way to do the N ridge these days. I'd love to hear other's experiences about it--I too have been wanting to get on the Black Ice and the N Ridge for a while. They were on the short list for my Tetons pilgrimage last year but I went too early in the season for north-side stuff. Maybe this will be the year. Hey Vert.Turtle--I did the E ridge myself in '96. What did you think? I thought the grovel factor was a bit high, but it's still one of the coolest routes I've ever done in the mountains (a very chilly night out above the second pillar notwithstanding . . .) Cheers

I've got my own vicarious horror story: way back when I first started climbing ('88 or so) a guy I'd climbed with a bit and was also pretty new to the sport started soloing stuff with a Soloist, which works by feeding rope if the pull is from below your waist but locks if the pull is from above your waist. He fell while in a wide crack: fist stacks popped, but foot jams held, so he toppled backwards. Since he fell upside down, the rope just fed through the device until he went off the end. He fell 100+ feet. Amazingly, he was found not long after he decked, by another party that included an EMT, of all things. Fortunately he survived, but was in ICU for eons; lots of broken bones, internal damage, head injury, the works. Never climbed again.

What accident?

This is an old, old subject, but I'll state my thoughts then get off my soap box for good . . . I agree with Alex--retro-bolting with the FAs permission is fine, especially where you're replacing a manky fixed piece with a sound one. I think the distinction CC is looking for is the one b/t "style," which refers to your personal experience on the route, and "ethics," which refers to actions that affect everyone's experience. People are sort of loose with the terms--myself included--but strictly speaking permanent alterations to established routes are questions of ethics. Retro-bolting or nailing on clean or free lines rightly incites condemnation. Matters of style include clean aiding or dogging free lines, stickier shoes, nude ascents, or whatever, and most people don't give a hoot about it as long as your honest. Later . . .

I'm about to get off thread, but I feel I need to respond to where "Cascade Climber" wrote: "What about a 5.13 sport climber establishing a 5.11 route with groundfall potential at every clip? Are all subsequent climbers required to risk death to repeat the route just b/c the first ascensionist felt the route was too "easy" to need "safe" protection?" The answer is, yes. Without question. I'm gobsmacked that people have an attitude that they are somehow "entitled" to do routes with absolute safety. If you can't do a route safely, find another route. If CC's argument were to prevail, classic areas like Seneca Rocks, Eldo, Stone Mountain, Toulumne, etc. would be retro-grid bolted to make them friendly for the masses. That is not what climbing is about, and if that is what climbing changes into I'm going to need to find a new hobby. If you need a bolt every 5 feet to stay happy, there are plenty of places where you can have that experience. But retro bolting established lines is desecration. Cheers.

My take on this is pretty context driven, and it's not exactly clear what situations Dane is referring to, but here's my take. If we're talking about subsequent ascents, the style of the first ascentionist should stand. Period. This has been a long-standing concensus that I think must be preserved. The comments of "Cascadeclimber" are a bit backwards--it's always been acceptable to improve the style of the first ascensionist--placing fixed pro on clean routes is a degradation in style. But I think Dane's query is really about new routes. In that case, I don't think you can say that using fixed pro on unprotectable ice is a new practice. That's been happening in the mountains since the dawn of time, and as for newer, shorter mixed climbs, I thinks it's been a pretty common practice to bolt sections where the ice is often thin or intermittent. For new climbs, I think bolting should be handled just like in rock climbing--it depends on the history and character of the area. Bolting at Vail of Haffner Creek is commonly accepted and fine. It's also not clear if Dane is talking about bolting unprotectable lines (what I'm talking about) or bolting lines that take adequate ice pro. I do agree that bolting a route that would take screws is as deplorable as bolting a crack, but as a practical matter I don't see this happening much. If the ice is thick enough to take a screw, how are you going to get to the bolt? All that being said, I would personally prefer that there be fewer bolts rather than more, but I think there's plenty of room for both styles of climb. Cheers, Jon fisher [This message has been edited by J Fisher (edited 02-12-2001).]

Dane, what problems have you heard about the BD aermet picks? I've got one on my old BPs that I was going to move to my new CFBPs but may reconsider. Re DBB's comment, I was eyeballing cobra and stinger picks just last night and diameter-wise they looked the same to me. the tip profile of one cobra pick was actually smaller than the stinger; another was the same. BTW, rei-outlet.com has stinger picks for about $19 right now--I just bought a few(I've got a pile of BD tools and have been stocking up on picks).

On a more serious note, and back to the topic, Udo Neumann's "Performance Rock Climbing" makes an interesting correlation b/t strength and endurance. The basic argument: there is some threshold below your 100% strength mark (call it 80%) below which you can keep going pretty much forever but above which the clock is ticking and you will flame out eventually (I'm not sure I'm using the term right, but lets call this the anaerobic threshold). By training maximum strength, you raise the bar on that 80% level and thus effectively increase your endurance; but training endurance will never increase your maximum strength. My personal experience to back this up is mixed. Under this theory, if you do lots of hard bouldering (say 12- moves) but few routes for a long time, you should still be able to jump on an 11- route and do OK. In my experience this does not hold up. I intially figured this meant the theory was flawed, but it's just as likely that if your max is 12-, then 80% of that is more like 10+, and on an 11- route I'm still in the anaerobic/"clock is ticking" zone. And since all that bouldering did nothing to increase anaerobic endurance I'll flail. My experience strongly supports the notion that endurance gains come more slowly and dissipate faster than strength gains. This, combined with the fact that most harder rock climbs--especially the good ones--seem to be exercises in anaerobic endurance (lots of moves a couple notches below your limit), lead me to focus my gym time on routes if I've got the option. For me at least, I don't think it's matter strength training cannibalizing endurance, or vice versa, so much as it is very difficult to train to maximize both without over training and/or getting injured. Which may be the same thing in practice. Cheers

I'm privileged to say that Mark is one of my regular climbing partners. I can vouch for the fact that he can talk endlessly about his extensive training and always makes me feel guilty about what a candy-ass I am. I can also vouch for the fact that he has a tendency to take off down the trail leaving me with both the rack and the ropes, so he seems to have mastered the more tactical elements of climbing as well.

I've talked to a number of people who braved the wade (one clever party sealed their gaiters with duct tape and ran across--they claim it worked). But I'm too big a wimp to go wading rivers in below freezing temps. Leaving town Saturday? You mean in the morning?

I've been up to Lillooet the last two weekends, and since the CASBC conditions page hasnt been updated in a while, I thought I'd share what I saw. Night n' Gale, Shriek o' the Sheep look fat from the road. The Terghazi dam is releasing water. I forgot the waders and didn't feel like getting wet, so we made other plans, but have since been told there's a make-shift bridge a few hundred meters upstream. Silk Degrees looked good 2 weeks ago but there's no 1st pitch so expect to do the rock on the right. [Called this Capricorn in my original post--sorry for the brain fart] Michelmon looked good two weeks ago but according to the CASBC site is now off limits. Honeyman: not even close. Cherry ice: talked to someone who said it's was climbable but on rotten, meager ice. Rambles: supposedly in good shape, but way crowded Synchronicity looked pretty sunbleached from the road. Talked to a party that backed off the 3d pitch b/c the ice was thin, rotten and detached. Serendibity looks like it's missing the bottom pitches. I'd be interested to hear from someone who's looked at it up close. Loose Lady: did this on 2/3. excellent, challenging climbing. The 1st pitch of the pillar requires pulling multiple overhanging blobs; 2d pitch is spectacular but pretty chandeliered and looks like it's seen very little traffic. Carlsberg: did this on 1/28. Pretty chandeliery in spots; lots of mushrooms make for technical climbing but nice stances. Icy BC. 1st two pitches are completely picked out. 3d pitch has a really fun line on the right (left side looks like it would go but be more sustained on crappier ice). The pillar to the right of Icy BC looks slender and shaky, but saw leads at least on 1/28. Deeping Wall is being led but sports wildly blobby, unconsolidated ice. Waite for Spring/Dihedral are thin and picked out, but leadable (marginally so for WFS) if you somehow get lucky and they aren't festooned with TRs (fat chance). Conditions are really cold again, so maybe that will help to bring things back around . . . [This message has been edited by J Fisher (edited 02-08-2001).]

Good but not new condition, size 11. These are the older style (black w/ purply cuff), not the shiny all black Vader boots. Have seen 3 seasons of light/moderate use, but were too big. $120 and they're yours. 206.328.4834 Jonathan

I may be getting off-thread here, and likely to be pounced upon as a heretic for stating my beliefs, but I find only minor climbing benefits from cardio training. I'll preface this by saying that you'll never catch me on a stairmaster with a pack on--so I can't say how much that sort of drudgery might help--for me cardio means running or maybe mountain biking. In my personal experience, lots of pavement time translates to a bit less discomfort on the trail and maybe a slightly faster pace, but it doesn't make a huge difference in my overall speed. I think for the recreational climber you're going to see much bigger gains from (1) improving your technical climbing abilities (2) honing your system for maximum efficiency, and (3) attitude, than you will from hours on the stairmaster. Put another way, the hour you save on the approach grind isn't go to save you from getting benighted if you taggle the ropes at every belay and otherwise doddle around on the route, place too much pro because you're wigged and spend 15 minutes at every hard move trying to get psyched up. My personal "training regime", such as it is, basically amounts climbing every weekend I can (2-3 weekends a month; maybe 2/3 cragging and 1/3 bigger routes/long days); hitting the gym a couple nights a week for a mix of bouldering, routes and occasional weights; and maybe, maybe a 5-7 mile run once or twice a week. If I'm short on time, the running is the 1st thing I drop. Even when I haven't done cardio in weeks, I've still had no problem on the "big route/long days", including doing multi-day routes car to car in what I feel are satisfactory times. FWIW, Jonathan

I've been using the BD lockdown leashes for waterfall ice for the last season and a half and I like them a lot. My last leashes were "slider" types and the lock downs are a real improvement. The only draw-back is you need to remember to not place the "free hand" tool too high. I thought they worked only OK with the pointy BD adze, though I switched to double hammers and any issues there went away real quick like.

I recently picked up a Gi-gi, which as an earlier poster mentioned is pretty similar. It's a huge improvement over an ATC or munter hitch for belaying one or two seconds on double ropes. Agree that it would suck for belaying a leader. But for climbing in threes on two ropes or if one person is doing most of the leading, it's a godsend

I think the best approach would be to do both. Most of the folks I know who do harder stuff in the mountains (by hard I mean alpine rock .9/.10) also do lots of cragging, including clipping bolts, and training in the gym. I think you need lots of trad/mountain experience to be fast and competent, but doing lots of hard moves in controlled environments is good for fitness and confidence. The only way to make 5.10 feel relatively easy is to do a bunch of 5.11s. But in my experience people who cut their teeth in a purely sporto environment seem to have a hard time making the transition--some combination of never learning to trust a protection system that isn't pre-installed, and, to be frank, getting so caught up in numbers that their egos find jumping down 3 or more grades hard to take.

I've spent the last two weekends at Banks Lake and environs and here's my take: Alex is right in saying that Banks has the best ice in Washington other than Drury, but that's not a ringing endorsement when the other ice in Washington is basically nil. With the exception of Devils PB and Guinness, the more classic, named climbs are either non-existant (AM Professor, Zenith) in in very thin, dangerous shape (H2O2, Cable, some of the West-facing beer climbs). That being said, there are scads of other lines, but they tend to possess some combination of being thin, rotten, incomplete and/or heinous topouts. The latter is particularly unappealing. I've had several memorable experiences on lines that looked fine from below which ended in hollow cones detached from the rock, followed by vertical mud and huge prickerbushes. Fighting your way through overhanging pricker bushes with your last questionable pro 15 feet below is more excitement than many people are looking for. Top roping has it's own exquisite challenges (and in my opinion would be better practiced somewhere else where you would not be knocking down someone else's potential lead). All that being said, there's stuff to do out there if you've got the inclination, but it appears to me the agenda for 90% of the visitors is Day One: join the crowds at the Devils Shooting Gallery, Day Two: have a minor epic setting up a toprope on some marginal thing or another. Just make sure you've set your expectations accordingly before you make the drive. [This message has been edited by J Fisher (edited 01-16-2001).]

AAC membership is worthy b/c of (1) the quality publications, (2) rescue insurance and (3) benefits when climbing outside the US. If most US climbers did the responsible thing and had rescue insurance the one of the fed's biggest arguments for user fees would be mooted. It sounds like Erik's frustation is with the AACs lack of a social component. That's not an institutional fault of the AAC but the collective fault of local AAC members. PNW climbers seem to be a somewhat cliquey and reclusive lot. ------------------ [This message has been edited by J Fisher (edited 01-10-2001).] [This message has been edited by J Fisher (edited 01-10-2001).]

A couple posters mentioned Nikwaxing the boots. The instructions that came with mine indicated that adding waterproofing is a big no-no. I've been meaning to follow up with the company as this seems pretty weird, and the factory waterproofing on mine is pretty worn out. I'd be interested to know if anyone has any more info on this point.

I'll concur with the above--10 1/2s fit like 10 1/2s--but the fit is very narrow/low volume. If they fit, they're great technical boots. Note that they are extremely stiff--plastic boot rigid--which makes them great on steep ice, and good for mixed and rock edging, but potentially painful for long trail slogs and lousy for smearing. I now only use my plastic boots when it's way cold or for multi-day snow slogs (the leather will wet out), but use my old K2s (or put the Solomons in the pack) if long trail slogging is involved. ------------------