tradhead

You can also rap down from the mid wall. I've never done it; looks like you need two ropes.

Have you been to Indian Creek before? Not too many overhanging cracks there, but the slippery rock (as compared to granite) and lack of footholds seem to make everything seem really steep to me... Not very local I realize, but it seems like the style of climbing that you are looking for in this thread.

Tim, Looking in the guidebook, I'm guessing that the 5.9 is "The Renovator" and the hard crack is "The Meat Cleaver" 5.12D. Both Charlie Naismith FA's in 1995. I've never checked them out but have seen the renovator from afar - it's a long way straight up the hill above the climber's lot. Not sure if these are the routes that you are thinking of or not.

Went up to exit 38 this morning to get a quick pump, and it was WAY too wet to climb. Would like to get out tomorrow at Exit 32/38 (potentially still wet) or Index. I can lead 5.10 sport and trad.

I've always set the rap up to pull the thin cord after watching the knot migrate downward when I had it rigged the other way. With the thin line as the pull line, the knot jams in the rap ring/chains. I wouldn't recommend this set-up for rapping through webbing without chains or rings - too much relative motion between the two different diameter ropes (for my comfort level anyway). I haven't experimented with using the second line strictly as a pull line. I'm concerned about the knot/keeper biner getting hung up, especially on loose/alpine terrain. I'd be curious to hear from those with direct experience if this is actually an issue in practice.

I can climb somewhere local (North Bend or Index.) It'll be pretty hot at Index but it would be my preference. Upper town wall or inner walls maybe?

Tim - Are you back in the states? Heard you were in Spain from your friend Dave a while ago. I've climbed with both systems a fair bit and feel that they both have merits in their respective applications. Fat line/skinny line - better for routes with a lot of steep climbing and a few raps. Put the skinny line in the seconds' pack while climbing = less rope weight for the leader to haul and simplified rope management. Using a static rap line will save on weight overall without compromising safety. It's best to always pull the static line due to knot travel issues, so if you have to do a bunch of raps retieing the knot at every station is annoying at best. Two 8.5-9mm half ropes are best for slabs with a rap descent (D'town/Infinite Bliss) You can let them hang down at belays without worrying about them getting hung on flakes, and rapping is simplified by being able to leave the joining knot. I don't think that a 70m tag line is merited unless you're new routing and are setting your own stations. Most established routes are set up for 50 or 60m raps depending on when they went up. I don't have a ton of experience with skinny half/twin lead lines on rock, but have some significant concerns regarding edges and 8 mm lead ropes. My preferred alpine set-up is a 9.2 mm x 60m Mammut Revelation lead line (55 g/m = 7.26 lbs) combined with a 8mm Beal static rap line (5.3 lbs by my home scale = 40 g/m). No worries about cutting either rope while rapping, and the Mammut Teflon coating equals zero rope drag on lead at the end of a full pitch, unequaled by any of my other ropes. My half ropes (9mm no less) have gotten worn pretty quickly on rock and have heard a few horror stories of 8mm twin ropes getting thrashed after a single multi-pitch rock route. With the fat line/skinny line theory at least you only need to buy one new rope instead of two. I'm not climbing anywhere your standard so I may by full of ####; just my two cents. Anyway, PM me some time if you want to meet up. Will

Thanks Matt, Porter and everyone else who put last night's event together. Kat and I had a great time. Everyone we met at the picnic was super friendly and welcoming to us. Hope to meet more of you at future events. Hopefully the weather will start clearing so that we can BBQ again soon! Will

In certain situations, offset cams can be godsends. A few years ago, I whipped off of the crux of the last pitch of the regular route on Careno Crag onto the only cam that I had that fit - a green alien. I knew it was a marginal placement before I fell, because only two lobes were well engaged. The cam caught me, but was only touching the rock on those two lobes after the fall. I jumped through the crux after that, because I wanted to get off the half-engaged cam! I later heard a story about someone taking a fourty footer when the former fixed pin protecting this move pulled. Now I have a few offset aliens and use them all the time. Whenever there's a decent angle scar or some weird flared flake, I'm stoked to have an option. Usually I don't have any other gear that will work when I bust them out. I don't own any offset nuts, though. Those might be a better choice for the weight and cost. I plan to take a look at them now that they're back in production.

I can lead the moderates (Godzilla, D-H, etc.) and follow ~.10+. Also open to North Bend sport, but one of my fingers is a little tweaked right now so I'd prefer to climb cracks. PM me tonight or tomorrow.

Sign me up for 4 dogs. I've got a few misc. items for the swap meet as well. Is there enough grill area by the shelter or should I bring a back-up hibachi?

I did some more research today at work into the laser HAZ issue, and while it is an interesting point, feel that it is probably not the most likely root cause for short pick life. Talking to our in-house laser guru, he felt that my estimate for HAZ depth was somewhat overstated for steels, but probably pretty good for titanium (which I somewhat ironically have more direct experience with laser trimming.) He suggested that <.005-.015 is probably more realistic for 0.150 thick low alloy steel, which is very much laser type dependant. A YAG will be on the low end while a CO2 laser will be on the high end of this range. I also thought a bit about the reported failures and in general wouldn't characterize them as high cycle fatigue, where laser HAZ cracking becomes an issue. It seems like the material is just brittle and that's why it breaks. This could be caused by a number of factors including the raw material type and quality, heat treatment, pick shape, loading, or combination of these factors. My metallurgist friend at work is on vacation for the next few days. I'll discuss this issue with him when he's back and pass on any thoughts that he has on the subject.

Tvash - I'm not sure what the strength and ductility is for the steel that BD used for their picks, so the impact of the laser HAZ on fatigue life is beyond my scope of knowledge without a bit more info on the subject. However, I do know this: 1) We hardly ever laser 0.150 thick material because there's no practical way to remove the HAZ (~.010-.020+ deep depending on laser type, part geometry, laser tuning, etc.) 2) I'd debit the area in question using a Kt of 3 if I were doing any fatigue life calcs on a pick just due to the geometry, so all the structural engineers that I work with would require complete HAZ removal unless the area is very lightly loaded (which the parts in question obviously are not based on how often they break!)

Dane- Did Bill Belcourt indicate whether or not the laser recast and heat affected zone (HAZ) were removed prior to further processing? I work in aerospace sheet metal and am very familiar with aircraft quality requirements on lasered edges to avoid fatigue issues in the heat affected zone on lasered edges. In practice, it is nearly impossible to ensure that the laser HAZ is always removed from a part as thick as an ice tool pick unless the entire lasered periphery is subsequently machined, typically by CNC mill. It is possible to remove the HAZ mechanically via a die grinder, but this is time-consuming and causes part-to-part dimensional variation. I'd be really surprised if BD went through the trouble to remove the laser HAZ; more likely they just knock off the overhanging recast and call it good.

I also have an X350A. Used it for the first time last week for 4 days of mostly sport climbing at Vantage. Good points - very comfortable and light. Gear loops hold a fair amount of gear, significantly more than a Petzl Corax. Bad points - price, super weak haul loop (if you can even call it that, more like a chalk bag clip loop!) and very awkward to use drop seat. Overall, probably not the best wall harness but highly recommended (based on my somewhat limited use) for applications less dependent on having a good haul loop and drop seat. I'm curious to see how long it holds up, as most of my dead bird gear has been really durable as compared to other brands.

The detour is either to the Dalles or through the Tri-Cities as I understand. Either way it adds at least an hour, probably more. Was planning to go that way last week myself but the weather in central Oregon was prohibitive.

How much use has it seen? Where do you live? I'm interested in the ledge assuming it's pretty close to new shape. I'm headed to Seattle Vertical World tomorrow ~4:30 so I could meet you there tomorrow evening or some other time this weekend when you're free?