tvashtarkatena

It's possible that the cop aggressively pulled Brown into the car, as some witnesses have claimed, resulting in a reflexive defensive response. But none of us were there, and even if we were, or even if we were one of the two involved in the altercation - confusion happens, particularly when fear takes over.

My intent was to steer the discussion towards a focus on long term racial disparity in our criminal justice system. Thanks for playing along. The Milwaukee is the most discriminatory jurisdiction in the country claim was made by Jeff Robinson, one of the most distinguished civil rights attorneys in the US, during the ACLU's Bill of Rights awards dinner this year. Jeff was a fellow ACLU board member for a year, before his many other duties called him away. Jeff Robinson's credentials Blacks are 21 times more likely to be shot by police than whites Racial disparity in our CJS, per Farrakhan v Gregoire 9th Circuit (2010)) Plaintiffs (who won the appeal *sic*) relied heavily on the reports of two expert witnesses: Dr. Robert Crutchfield, a Professor of Sociology at the University of Washington, who has “conducted extensive research on racial disparity in the Washington State criminal justice system,” Crutchfield Report at 9, and Dr. Katherine Beckett, an Associate Professor of Sociology at the University of Washington, who “conducted a 2004 study entitled Race and Drug Law Enforcement in Seattle,” Crutchfield and Beckett's evidence, as presented during Farrakhan vs Gregoire 9th Circuit (2010) One excerpt from Crutchfield’s evidence: ”…an African American in Washington State was slightly more than nine times more likely to be in prison than a white American in the state. But, the ratio ofblack to white arrest for violent offenses was only 3.72 to 1. This means that substantially more than one half of Washington State’s racial disproportionality cannot be explained by higher levels of criminal involvement as measured by violent crime arrest statistics.” This will help interested parties scratch the surface. There are a lot more supporting materials of course. Big issue. Get your wonk on!

he doesnt get the concept, either.

While driving back from some other planet down south last year, Big Man and I pulled over alongside a plowed field to crash at about 4 am - BAM = flashing lights outta nowhere. The sheriff was a bit of a dick at first, but he heard our sad story and spotted us some extra gas (fuck me, that is one gasless stretch on I DEE HO's southern border - not the best situ for an 8.5 gal toy car tank). I've got to say I wasn't in my perkiest mood at that hour either. It beat waking up in the middle of the night with a 12 gauge in my face (Dominican Coast Guard wake up call). That guy turned out to be OK too, in the end. Funny thing was, his boat looked an awful lot like a mule. Thank dog I took the trouble to get my passport properly stamped that time.

I don't think he gets the concept.

I agree with Pete H here. The ACLU works with all stakeholders in the criminal justice system, from legislators to cops, and most people try their best to do the right thing. Needless to say, assuming otherwise without any data isn't productive. The trick is to identify the problem areas, gather enough verifiable data to back up your assertions, figure out a doable path to reform, then assess resources to ensure that program can be successful. One example problem we're dealing with: prison recitivism of indigent folks who cannot pay their their LFOs (legal financial obligations). 4 WA counties are the worst offenders in this regard, and it turns out the county clerks play a key role. Who knew? So we focus on those 4 counties to get a statewide reform program going - one that, if successful, can provide a model for the rest of the country. It's not helpful to try and second guess the motives of these actors. the results of their actions are all that are required. From there, the options are many - but it always starts with a conversation with the actors which includes a detailed report of where we think improvements could be made. Occasionally (not often), this attempt at establishing dialogue is ignored, and escalation is necessary. How that happens - through the legislature, litigation, public information campaigns - varies according to the nature of the problem, the political climate, and the resources available to address it.

Marijuana arrests account for a quarter of all arrests. If blacks don't smoke any more weed than whites (they don't), why are they being arrested for marijuana at three times the rate whites are again? Hmmm. Maybe they smoke more aggressively or something?

It's a joy, actually.

We might also consider putting an end to voter suppression programs that systematically target black communities - who vote over 90% democrat.

Oh, and regarding 'white guilt' - that's just another shitty little rhetorical ploy by those unwilling to be part of the solution against those who are. It's not guilt. It's disgust at systemic injustice and hope that we can do better. The last poster could stand to do a bit of research as to what goes into those statistics. 'Blame the victim' - the sum total of his non-argument, doesn't even begin to cover it.

So what's the solution? Well, it's a complex problem - massive disparity of economic and educational opportunity plays a huge role. But let's just focus on the 'easy' part - a racially biased criminal justice system. Some ideas: 1) End a 42 year long, failed drug war. Fewer arrests overall - less discrimination over all. This would also remove the number one threat to civil liberties. 2) Use newly available Big Data to focus on problem individuals rather than communities or races. Good article today in the NYT on New Yorks AG, Cyrus Vance Jr, who is trying to do just that with some remarkable success. For example: violent repeat offenders, there are about 80 in that city who cause the most trouble. By identifying those individuals and making their histories readily available to stakeholders in the criminal justice system - from police to judges - better decisions can be made as to how to protect society from them. 3) Increased DOJ scrutiny of large municipal police departments with histories of excessive use of force and racially biased policing. 4) Identifying problems jurisdictions so that they can reform themselves. Want to know the most discriminatory municipality in the US? Milwaukee, WI. Nobody wants that honor - Milwaukee included. The court system took a day off to access the problem and come up with solutions - which they are now currently implementing. Anyone disagree with any of these ideas? If so, why?

As I've stated, the 3x discrimination at every stage of the criminal justice system - from likelihood of arrest to longer sentences, speaks for itself. Take marijuana. Blacks are 3 times more likely to be arrested and convicted - despite no difference in usage of the drug from whites. Black men are 21 times more likely to be shot by police than white men. Hence, my assertions - all of which are backed by copious, publicly available data. Any salient comments?

Nope. That's not even close to what I've been saying, but thanks for reading. What I've been saying is what I've been saying - and nothing more. Reread and provide quotes to support your thesis if you're of a mind. Regarding white guilt - sorry - my peeps were having their own issues on the Emerald Isle when the shit was going down here. As for me - my conscience is just fine, thanks. My beliefs with regards to policies involving race are complex, but let's face it, nobody here is really interested in that wonkishness, eh? In any case, there are two thread bare rhetorical ploys, common as dirt, in the shitter where they belong. Just want to make the joint a little less violent and deadly is all. Too much violence on the part of the police is definitely part of that problem, even in our own libral town of Seattle, where the SPD is currently operating under a consent decree due to a documented history of excessive use of force and racially motivated violence. That is, if you can believe security videos of SPD kicking the shit out of some guy while calling him a fucking spic are to be believed. Apparently, the DOJ found them - and copious other evidence, credible enough to launch an extensive investigation followed by a damning report.

Well, you don't really know what role Wilson's attitudes towards blacks played here, do you? You don't even know what actually happened. Plus, I haven't failed to acknowledge anything, so there's that. What interests me is the certainty of support for the 'you shoot 'em, of course' solution exhibited here. Where does that come from? The US is the only self described civilized country where such gun violence is not only accepted, but actively celebrated. Why is this? I'm interested in changing that culture, and to that end, I've asked pointed questions here - none of which I expect to be answered, of course (and they haven't been). Such questions invariably lead to lots of assumptions (all of them wrong) about the questioner, along with the usual insults. No surprise there - this is an almost autonomic response to such queries. Regarding this particular incident, it seems possible that Brown reaching for Wilson's gun while he was seated in his cruiser doesn't make sense to me. Furthermore, did Wilson really need to riddle this unarmed kid with a hail of bullets to protect himself? Do the posters here consider that 'good policing'? I'm neither anti-cop nor pro black, but I will admit to being anti-shooting-people. But this kind of shooting happens all the time, and there's the rub. In my own home town this past year, a 15 year old kid was shot to death by a cop, and not at close range, for wielding a toy gun. Why does this happen so often in the US, and no where else? How can we change that? It seems many here are comfortable with this status quo. I'm not.

Just thinking about the poor kid's family is all. And all the poor kids like him. Not complicated. And not at all ideological. But then, only the Big Man here's got a clue as to who I am, so I don't expect accuracy. And I know full well how conflicting testimony and rigged legal proceeding can go, so pardon my healthy skepticism and willingness to entertain doubt. I also understand what the armchair web jockey hormone does to a brain. Or an innernut dogpile of salt licking brains, as it were.

Prove it web jockey. Or not. Not is good. More to the point, what was your personal experience there that proved so compelling? Do you believe Brown 'got what he deserved'? Did the cop have to shoot him six + times, well after his gun was allegedly threatened (that is certainly in question), to protect himself? Do you belief the cop could have responded in a non lethal manner just as effectively? And finally, did you personally witness the event? If not, what justifies your certainty of opinion?

Not you, Big Man. You probably know more about teenagers than the rest of this site combined. Buckshot's ready to put an ALL CAP in yo ass. I've been to Mattawa a few times (pop 4500). Right out of Steinbeck - the Spanish translation. 'ghetto' might be a bit of an overstatement. There's not enough Mattawa for that designation, it seems. The 'he got what he deserved' sentiment here is palpable. Strangely, I don't share it. I find it disgusting. At first I thought that people were missing the larger mark - our highly discriminatory criminal justice system. But now I realize that the folks here simply use the same sentiment to justify that - 'they're getting what they deserve'. Nothing new under the sun in these United States.

pontification is also a common feature of web discussions. as are unearned assumptions of expertise and experience.

maybe you can forward that suggestion to Brown's family.

You know all those 18 year olds? Cuz that looks like a pic pulled from the web.

Adult? How many 18 year olds do you guys know? That he attacked the cop is very much in doubt. Seems like it could just as easily have been the other way around according to many witnesses, but ya'll believe according to how your inner beings want it to play out. With innernutz certainty, of course. He shot the kid at least six times. Seems a bit much to me, but that's me, I reckon. Bleeding heart and all that.

Did you know Michael Brown personally? Or know anyone who knew him personally? He was 18. Basically, the cop shot an unarmed kid. Oh wait, he was Big and Black - so he must have been oneathose Superpredators. Plus, he did pilfer those Cigarillos.

Initiatives play a vital role in enacting bold reform when legislatures aren't up to the task. Ending the Drug War, for example. Very glad to have them as an option.

MUSHROOM BACON STRUDEL Ingredients 1. 1 lb small crimini mushrooms, diced 2. ½ sweet onion diced 3. 1/3 lb bacon, fried crispy and diced 4. 3 tablespoons butter 5. 3 tablespoon grapeseed oil 6. 2 tablespoons sherry wine 7. 1 tablespoon fresh thyme or 2 teaspoons dried thyme 8. 3 tablespoons cream 9. salt 10. fresh ground black pepper 11. 8 x 9” x 9” sheets phyllo pastry per strudel – makes 4 strudels, so 24 sheets total. 1 box is more than enough. 12. 1/4- cup butter and ¼ cup grapeseed oil (for brushing phyllo) Preheat oven to 375. Saute mushrooms in butter and grapeseed oil till well-softened. Add sherry, thyme, cream, and salt/pepper and cook till thickened . Lay out 9” x 9” phyllo sheets, alternately brushing each with either melted butter or grapeseed oil Spread ¼ mushroom mix near one end of phyllo, leaving 1” at each end. Roll into log, pinch ends closed, and brush outside with oil or butter. Make 4 strudels. Oil baking sheet, bake for 20 min or until golden brown. Let rest for 10 minutes (or freeze for reheating later). Cut crosswise to serve.

The mushroom strudel i just made induces mouthgasms. wampum for dead bird. Here's to good friends, family, and planet fucking earth! Weigh in, people. NO WIPING.