prole

Or pushing through tax cuts for the rich while decrying a state revenue shortfall?

You mean like fast tracking privatization schemes for political cronies?

Yeah, it's weird how we're trying to trying our damnedest to find ways to eliminate the middle-class gains of bus drivers and teachers while American corporations and finance capital are practically drowning in cash. Schizophrenia is mainstreaming.

This argument is really only compelling if public sector unions' advocacy is solely limited to increasing their own pay and benefits. It isn't. Workers providing public services have first hand experience with marginalized communities of service users and are the most knowledgeable citizens with regard to state of the institutions they work in, our infrastructure, our schools, etc. Far from simply cynically seeking their own "job security", unions and their members have been powerful advocates on issues they're dealing with on a daily basis, from school lunch programs to women's shelters. The political threat that these unions pose is that they're putting money behind issues and into campaigns and politicians that the Right oppose, working class issues and campaigns that unions and the Left historically champion. Public sector unions, the last American unions with substantial density, represent a concentrated economic bloc that systematically pushes the progressive agenda and pushes back against corporate power. You're right Jay, this is about politics. That's all this shit's about. Agree that it's about politics. If it were about altruism, we'd see public sector workers making sure that their pay and benefits ranked behind funding for delivering all of the services that the most vulnerable members of society rely on, they'd be leading the charge on cost efficiency so that the state could actually deliver more services to more people at a lower cost, etc. Unfortunately for your thesis, we actually see precisely the opposite any time there's pressure on the budget. Zero movement towards cost efficiency, zero movement for focusing the governments priorities on the areas where they're needed most, etc, etc, etc, etc. Take an even closer look at the way they operate and you see things like work rules such as the Metro agreements that staff overtime with the most senior bus drivers so that they can use the overtime to spike their pension payouts, rampant pension spiking via other means, etc, etc, etc. The day that all of the above self-dealing that siphons resources away from other more legitimate public priorities is the day that you'll be able to claim that the public sector unions that actually exist operate in a manner that's consistent with the romantic vignette that you've offered up above. I never said it was all about altuism (a concept you're generally in conflict with anyway, no?). That unions represent the interest of their members is kind of a no-brainer but the notion that many public sector unions have been unwilling to make concessions is false. Link, link, link, link, link. Yes, many have resisted conceding hard-won gains. But it's not clear that they shouldn't since those concessions aren't going to amount to a squirt of piss in terms of addressing the cause of the crisis (the economy cratering/tax cuts) or the only real solution to it (stimulating economic growth). This is born out by the data that's emerging from countries experiencing the same austerity measures proposed here. If there's no real, rational, quantifiable reason for busting American unions then it's simply about undermining concentrated support for the liberal left and reviving the Rovian dream of permanent GOP majorities.

This argument is really only compelling if public sector unions' advocacy is solely limited to increasing their own pay and benefits. It isn't. Workers providing public services have first hand experience with marginalized communities of service users and are the most knowledgeable citizens with regard to state of the institutions they work in, our infrastructure, our schools, etc. Far from simply cynically seeking their own "job security", unions and their members have been powerful advocates on issues they're dealing with on a daily basis, from school lunch programs to women's shelters. The political threat that these unions pose is that they're putting money behind issues and into campaigns and politicians that the Right oppose, working class issues and campaigns that unions and the Left historically champion. Public sector unions, the last American unions with substantial density, represent a concentrated economic bloc that systematically pushes the progressive agenda and pushes back against corporate power. You're right Jay, this is about politics. That's all this shit's about.

Everett huh? Did you ever get caught in any crossfire between rival gangs down there?

FUX VIEWERS WILL NEVER KNOW THEY WERE DUPED!!

Tyson, meet Jonathan.

Somebody needs caped.

Post-Tuscon Spray = Ghey

Yeah, I daresay it might get some headlines when these people can use all the help they can get.

Uh, I sure as hell do. Would love to see Scott Walker brought up on international human rights violations, customary or otherwise. Perhaps someone should suggest it to some of the European unions.

Like what? let's talk about no-bid contracts, let's talk about financial bailout and subsequent 20% of the money going to bonuses of CEO's, who ruined these companies in the first place. Dude, that's just corporations exercising their right to free speech, representation, and pursuit of self-interest, and a right to a return on their investment. No "patronage machine" here...

"patronage machine/engine" is the new "central planning" is the new "islamofascism" is the new...

Gov. Scott Walker has got a Louisville Slugger!

It's also necessary to suspend their Iron Law of Rational Self Interest when it applies to workers acting collectively.

Dude, the gov is just keeping in touch with his constituency. Providing a return on his donor's investment. It's how one dollar, one vote works. Gotta run government more like a business don'tcha know!

Wait, what's which is the true agenda and which is the actual agenda?

I thought neolibs were supposed to bust the unions then sell off all our public assets, not do both at the same time. Jay_B, some clarification here?

Exactly.

He could be right, but not in the way he thinks. Give us another five to ten years...

Ohio.

What worked for post-invasion Iraq will surely work just as well for American politicians.

Like us, they're probably learning that you're wrong about nearly everything. Yes, you're in trouble.