prole

"Takes his ball and goes home?" I believe MaryLou was the one who hit the ignore this user radio button. She joins her fellow losers; Trashtarkington and Moschillin. I haven't left what you call 'this discussion' at all, but some of your comrades certainly have. But when the core of this thread consists of leftists making statements like, "I am ashamed to be an American", "Let's put Saddam back in power", "Saddam = George Bush", "650,000 dead - how dare you claim only 60,000!", and Prole propegating an outright hysteric lie from dubious sources about a US-sponsored coup, I feel no compulsion to play nice. How do you think our troops over there would feel if they read your bullshit? This thread is a who's who of the cc.com self-hate-hate-america crowd. Other than Trashkent's Iraq partition proposal, which Bush has wrongly rejected, I see no solutions here. Just the usual bullshit. Go look in the mirror fuckheads. I am you looking back from the other side. You continue to dodge the question of your past (present?)loyalty to the Bush Administration's doomed project in Iraq. You have been an avid cheerleader for the invasion and occupation in the past (rather quiet lately though), and I was just wondering if you have been rethinking your past(?) positions in light of the catastophe that has been unfolding there and elsewhere. Sorry to have to single you out, but it seems that it's your comrades that have distanced themselves from these positions. How do I think our troops would feel if they read my bullshit? Well honestly I'm a bit conflicted there. One the one hand I realize all too clearly that many of the folks over there are in a lot of trouble not of their own making. Poverty, ignorance, and general lack of healthy opportunities for a dignified and honorable existence have trapped these people in an absolutely horrifying position. Maybe if they read my and other's bullshit before they enlisted perhaps they may have made other choices. On the other hand, I gave up the support-the-troops-guilt-trip long ago. It's when I realized that many of "our" troops over there really do enjoy killing, maiming, and torturing other human beings that I gave up on that one. Can't wait for those guys and gals to get home! In that sense, I don't really give a fuck what they would think about my bullshit. I still can't really blame them, war does terrible things to people, that's why I am generally against it. How about you? I am still trying to figure out how you can be supportive of "the troops" and support this war. You've seemed to have juggled this contradiction pretty well. GIRL, what IS your secret? Lastly, alot of the troops probably agree with my bullshit. I'm not going to defend what anybody has said on this site, ever. People say alot of stupid shit. But I don't think any of the statements you mention represent the core of this thread. One of the more inflammatory, but I think important, bits was the picture of gassed Kurds. How exactly do you grapple with the well documented fact that when that photo was taken, Saddam was being supported by the US government, a number of whose members occupy high posts in the Bush Administration? The article that I cited comes from an on-line newspaper called the Asia Times. It offers daily analysis of world events by a wide variety of sources primarily from Asia. Personally, I think it offers some of the best analysis out there, and provides an antidote to alot of the flaccid arguments offered by American liberal and progressive press. Some is hit or miss, some I disagree with entirely. I often post articles that I like on this board. The article that I drew the coup possibility from cites Marie Colvin of the Sunday Times of London, Dr Saleh al-Mutlaq, a prominent Sunni politician, Anthony Cordesman, "an uber-realist, conservative US military analyst", David Ignatius of Washington Post, "a former CIA officer with wide experience in the Middle East", and Salah Mukhtar, "a former top Iraqi official who served as Iraq's ambassador to India and then Vietnam in the period just before the US invasion of Iraq " among others. All easily shrugged off as a "outright hysteric lie from dubious sources"? Hmm. Here's the article: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HJ21Ak03.html You might actually read it this time. After reading it in light of the beating Maliki has been taking in the US press during the last 24 hours perhaps you'd like to wager on how much longer he'll be around.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! The quintessential Fairweather response has finally arrived! Judges, can you please confirm the reply's arrival as the 21st post on the fourth page of this thread. Ladies and gentlemen, for those who are not familiar with Spray, this is where FW, instead of confronting the numerous responses of substance (often backed with evidence) challenging his statements on the field of open debate, chooses to single out a personal slight, cry "victim of political correctness", ignore any and all reference to legitimate challenge to his viewpoint, takes his ball and goes home. Fairweather, has the somewhat conservative estimate of 600,000 post-invasion deaths in Iraq caused you to question your support of the war? Has it been worth it?

thank you for proving how insane you liberal nut jobs really are. Funny thing is, the administration that you have supported is searching far and wide for another Saddam Hussein type right now. A dictatorship backed by US ground forces and airstrike capability would wreak more carnage than Saddam ever did. Read more: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HJ21Ak03.html

"But it does when you rip someone's throat-box out with your thumb, middle and index fingers."

Fairweather, apparently you fail to realize that if somehow the administration and the architects of this colossal, regional (soon to be global), unprecedented fucking DISASTER had known in advance how big the landmine they were stepping on was, they would never have gotten rid of Saddam Hussein. In fact, in this entirely hypothetical "what-if" world, I'm willing to bet they would be funding the extermination of Saddam's rivals real, potential, and imaginary (just as they were when the photo above was taken) to insure that what is happening in Iraq right now could never happen in a million years. Saddam Hussein's regime is distant unattainable wet-dream for American elites! Wake up. Everybody else has.

Yes, "Point Break" is amazing. But isn't "Roadhouse" absolutely sublime?!

Cheney Skis in Jeans

I'll second Alejandro Jodorowsky's "The Holy Mountain". Absolutely stunning. I still can't believe that such a thing actually exists.

From what I've been reading, it appears that Maliki's days are numbered and that trying to replace Maliki and his government with a "strongman" or junta looks increasingly likely. Where this group will come from or from which element of Iraqi society they will draw their power is a complete mystery. This administration does not seem capable of letting an opportunity to foster bloodshed and chaos while thoroughly embarassing itself pass; don't be suprised to see some new faces installed when the "benchmarks" aren't met. Bedtime for "democracy" I guess, is it just me or does there seem to be a pattern of US support for dictatorships to defend democracy? Whatup with that? What seems to be missing in this discussion thread is the understanding the extent to which the armed militias and are embedded in the existing political structure. "Taking on the militias", as Maliki (and the US knows), is suicidal. The extent of the al-Sadr militia's power was evidenced quite spectacularly this week with the release of a high level militia leader by Maliki himself and their armed takeover of a southern Iraqi city. Their activity in the highest levels of the police are well documented as death squads run amok with impugnity. There is no "getting tough", the US has no hand to play unless turning non-Green Zone Baghdad into Fallujah-the Extreme Edition or "turning the desert to glass" is your bag of tricks. As pacifying Baghdad in the last month or so has proved a disaster tactically and politically, so goes the military occupation itself. What a complete and utterly tragic (not to say avoidable) adventure this has been. Can any of you find anything redeeming in this at all? I address this question specifically to those on this discussion board that supported this misadventure from day one, bought the bullshit, shovelled it thick, defended the undefendable, excused the inexcusable. Have you rethought your positions? Hundreds of thousands are dead as a result of this war, that's a fact. How will you view your support for this war in the years to come? History has failed you once again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Can%27t_Wait http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Communist_Party%2C_USA Still waiting for some "truth" from you, Jim. Hmmmmm. And we come full circle. Far out.

I.W.W. - Because Capitalism Cannot Be Reformed

Pretty grim stuff. http://mondediplo.com/2006/10/03uschaos

Good article. Check-check it out. http://mondediplo.com/2006/09/08democracy

Dave Matthews is the next Kenny G for a new generation of aging yuppies. {puking graemlin}

Here's an interesting piece on American power, if anybody still gives a fuck. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/HG28Aa01.html

Your historically myopic view of the "civilized world" is a dangerous shortcoming.

Hearts, Minds, and POCKETBOOKS!!! Freedom and democracy on the march. Ramadan Ritual: Fast Daily, Pray, Head to the Mall By HASSAN M. FATTAH DUBAI, United Arab Emirates, Oct. 7 - The decorations are hanging, the cash registers are clanging, and the air of holiday cheer is everywhere. For a holy month, Ramadan is not what it used to be. Once an ascetic month of fasting, prayer and reflection on God, Ramadan has gradually taken on the commercial trappings of Christmas and Hanukkah, from the hanging lights that festoon windows to the Ramadan greeting cards and Ramadan sales and advertising campaigns that have become the backbone of commerce for the month. Marketers and businesses have caught on to the potential of 1.3 billion people at home fasting or breaking their daily fasts and getting back to normal life, a captive audience eager for entertainment and celebration, and more than willing to feast when the sun goes down. Here in Dubai, the region's supermall, commercialism has taken on a life of its own as almost everything has been dressed in the cloak of Ramadan, from consumer goods to cars. Malls are open till the early morning, and the nights rock away at dinner parties in desert tents. "Ramadan is changing from a religious month to a cultural or social event," said Muhammad el-Kuwaiz, a Saudi management consultant based in Dubai. "You're using faith to commercialize something else. It doesn't feel right." Sheik Ahmed Abdelaziz Haddad, the grand mufti of the Islamic Affairs Department in Dubai, puts it even more succinctly. "The problem isn't that people are trading and doing business," he said. "It's that people have taken this month to be a month of shopping." Ramadan, the ninth month of the Muslim lunar calendar, is considered the holiest month of the year. It is during this month, Muslims believe, that the Prophet Muhammad received his first revelations of the Koran from the Archangel Gabriel. From then on, Muslims have been ordered to forgo food, water and other worldly pleasures during the day for the entire month as a pillar of their faith, a sacrifice to show they have not forgotten God and the less fortunate. The fast begins at dawn and lasts until sundown, with special prayers held in the evenings in an air of heightened spirituality and meditation. But walk through many Arab cities this month, and the spirit may also move you to buy, buy and buy some more. In Egypt, hotels and restaurants advertise Ramadan feasts while an advertising sweepstakes calls on people to read all 30 days of ads to win a prize. In Beirut, Lebanon, worshipers hang colored lights that say Ramadan Kareem, or blessed Ramadan. A Mercedes advertisement in a Dubai newspaper plays on the theme of the crescent, a common Islamic symbol: "Welcome Ramadan with a visit to Gargash Enterprises and you'll soon be feeling over the moon." Companies and political candidates campaigning for parliamentary elections in Egypt next month give away traditional Ramadan lanterns emblazoned with their names and company logos. A shopping mall here even features a Ramadan display with an uncanny resemblance to a Nativity scene, complete with moving camels, a village elder reading stories and a desert scene. A program in Dubai offers a different twist, of a million dirham raffle - about $275,000 - with half the total going to local and international charities. "It's not something bad to have increased shopping in Ramadan" said Mohammed Mahgoub, the commercial committee adviser for the campaign. "The more people buy, the more they share." The Ramadan consumption is more conspicuous here and in cities like Cairo than in, say, Saudi Arabia. For advertisers Ramadan is like a 30-day Super Bowl weekend, when TV channels broadcast their best programming and competitors jostle for market share. Some brands spend as much as half of their advertising budget in this month alone. With those kinds of resources being brought to bear, it may be no wonder that many people are troubled by the creeping commercialism. "It is supposed to be about spirituality, but it drives me crazy that it is all about food and banquets," said Naglaa Abdel Fattah, 30, a secretary in Cairo. "I do not feel the spirit of Ramadan anymore." "I call my friend and all she talks about is the 10 dishes her family is preparing for iftar," Ms. Fattah said, referring to the breaking of the fast after sundown. "This is extravagant." Sheik Haddad says Muslims who take the month lightly are doing themselves an eternal disservice. "A Muslim who is focused on the worldly trade will miss the benefits he could get in the hereafter," he said. "What we see happening today in the commercialism of Ramadan is caused by Muslim ignorance of what is required of them to benefit their souls. God defined this month to save them and to protect their souls." But his message seems increasingly unheeded in the malls and shopping arcades here. Many malls are closed in the afternoons, or are empty because people usually slumber then. But they come to life after sundown, after many people feast, and they stay open until 2 a.m. "Why can't religion and fun go hand in hand?" asked an Iraqi man who spoke on condition that his name not be used because of the sensitivity of religious matters here. "You want to be part of it. The whole thing is one big celebration, and people enjoy it. There's nothing wrong with it." But to Mr. Kuwaiz and others, there is plenty wrong with it. "You're supposed to exercise abstinence, and the opposite happens," he complained. "Ramadan has become a month where people exercise gluttony." Nada El Sawy contributed reporting from Dubai for this article, and Abeer Allam from Cairo.

"So a job in a sweat factory aint so bad? Becuase the alternative is death?" Yes. That's the magic of the marketplace! Don'tcha just feel so, so...Free?!

I'm glad you support the abolition of welfare, state support of university students, etc! You're making real progress. But it's sad that you would supplant human drive, spirit, innovation with a government hammer and chains. Stupid statements you made, really. Maybe even top ten material! Fairweather, you seem generally suppotive of of the idea you highlighted in bold above. Are you bold enough to include inheritance in the equation, or do newborn millionaires not make the list with welfare mothers and parasitic intellectuals?

Haven't been to the Y yet. Why's it suck?

Tuh-MAY-Toe

The link, Fairweather, the link?

JoshK, You don't seem to understand that history is entirely irrelevant. All that is required is an esoteric knowledge of economistic models and principles entirely divorced from any existing or historical social context. Once you have gained a bare minimum of said knowledge and the ability to regurgitate it on demand you will recognize: A. Everything is fine. B. If everything isn't fine, the theory/model isn't being applied properly and meddlesome regulation is to blame. C. Rinse and repeat.

"It is proved that things cannot be other than they are, for since everything is made for a purpose, it follows that everything is made for the best purpose." --Dr. Pangloss

Cheney "Vice-President Dick Cheney visited an emergency management centre in Austin, Texas, and said the government was finally gaining control of the situation. "I think we are in fact on our way to getting on top of the whole Katrina exercise. We've got a lot of work ahead of us," he said."