crimper

I climbed there dozens of times, but when I last went in 2011 or so it clearly hadn't seen much traffic in a while. It's got 70-100 routes i'd guess. Better be solid at 10a (Cruel Sister/Gruff/Delirium Tremens 10a) or there's not much to enjoy. But if you like stout single pitch trad it's like a parallel universe trout creek with a shorter hike, far fewer people - and none of the glory! PM me and I can share plenty more. The crag is clearly visible (though just briefly) while heading south/east on hwy 26 in the horseshoe canyon facing north just before you cross the deschutes (and head under the more well-known Bill's Columns).

i'll bet there were 500 people in pdx's various "climbing" gyms while you did the SE corner kev...i was at carver yesterday in that same perfect weather with only one other party there.... i'm not complaining, imagine if those 500 people had descended upon our 7 or 8 pdx-ish crags... since i started climbing in 1999 i've learned people don't like to climb on rock, they prefer to climb on plastic. there's no other way to explain the disparity in numbers. people don't really like the real thing...gym climbers simply do not like to rock climb...the numbers speak for themselves...and i'm very glad about that...

dastardly is just that. backs of my hands look pretty raw. or maybe that was from the thin hands on dod's...

i found the crag (you can exhale now). olson's guidebook beta was enough. it's not the promising first rightside turn 3-4 minutes after leaving the campground (this is a wide trail), but a few hundred feet later turn right (onto a much fainter, yet obvious if you're looking for it, trail). it angles NE and up, and within 4-5 minutes it's clear you need to choose whether to go above or below a burgeoning cliffband. choose below. there's maybe 40 routes, 30-50 feet high, and mainly bolted or mixed. i only bouldered with my 4 and 6 year olds. is it killer climbing? no. but you can take your family here and climb sport routes up to 5-11 just 10-15 minutes walk from your lakeside campsite. where else can you do that within 90 minutes of pdx? (if you know, tell me!)

This is a cry for help. I climbed here back in 2002 or so but can't remember a thing about where to park/start hiking. I have olson's new guide and it's pretty vague about those details. I'm camping here this weekend with my wife and 3 young kids and won't have the luxury of bushwhacking around to find the crag eventually. If anyone has decent beta I'd give it a go, though. Can anyone help me out? Thanks!

it had to have been 6-7 years ago that arent pulled that pin. you must not have needed it that badly if you climbed past it. i'm guessing it was 15 feet into the climb, below the first little roof.

i'm all for adventure climbing, but has anyone taken a lead fall yet? will that sandy/muddy looking "rock" really resist when a bolt expands under a lead fall? then again, i was recently too scared to fall on the pins on sufficiently breathless at beacon and took a hang to try and keep that from happening (bear in mind i can't forget watching arent pull out a pin on "blood sweat and smears" at beacon with his fingertips. he came back to the anchor after that...and i don't think he's been back on that climb since...has anyone?)

You had to take the bait, huh Bill? At least you're putting up routes, I can't say the same for myself these days.

Jimmy's is the chossiest "climbing" crag that I've ever seen. It makes Ozone circa 2004 look bulletproof. I was afraid just to walk the base. It never occurred to me to actually put up a route somewhere in all the choss. One wrong flick of the rope, or even a good sneeze, and you might be buried in choss. That said, it's a pretty area, and braver folks than me (and who are much much much more determined to put up new routes) appear to be spending their free time putting up moderates for others to enjoy, so good for them. In 10 years I might check it out again. Nah, probably not.

attaboy tyler, go get some! in 5 years i probably will be out there sketching out between bolts but motivated by the awesome setting and huge clif-face. i can't imagine the crag could ever see "too much traffic" based on its location and overall size, so i hope it becomes more and more popular (and bolted and cleaned over the years... i love how ozone has made the other crags seem less crowded. the more the merrier!

the extension looked gnarly. what does it go at? also, i think ground-falls are to be expected any time you fall with the rope out to clip, unless you are at least 4-5 bolts up. a routesetter shouldn't have to drill bolts to keep people off the deck in the event they blow a clip. clipping is the moment of truth, if you can't clip, drop the rope and downclimb. or take the whip. or grab the draw. or try to clip off a higher hold. basically, do anything but flail with the rope waving around up there! or else accept that for the glory of the "send" you are willing to risk decking. i think we've all done that at some point, on some climb. climbing is just not safe, no matter how many bolts a route has...

this thread is all over the place and great! mano a mano duels, and great spray! i never knew the name of the 4 bolt 11b (is that the grade?) at Madrone. Now i do: Comfortizer. If it is 11b, then it's the first 11b i ever onsighted - and honestly, i think the bolt spacing gave me the needed incentive to get the send. once i made that dicey third clip, i was fully in the zone and ready to climb until i fell, no way would i take a hang at that point. Lowering from the chains about 5-6 years ago was one of my happier moments. so, in some double-edged irony and thanks to dave's spare bolting, that send is memorable in a way that sends of masterpiece theater or the crumbling at ozone simply are not. then again, i agree with kevin that the second bolt is really too low to catch you if you fall while getting set to clip the third bolt. but this ought to be apparent from the ground, and certainly as you prepare for the third clip. so you either walk on by or else tell your belayer to get set. some climbs are like that. but we can nitpick dozens of climbs that coulda shoulda had bolts lower, or to the side, or just one more bolt (i also would love to see critical mass sprout another bolt up top, but somehow i doub that will happen).

i'm glad bill and crew found a fun and gorgeous spot to drill exciting sport routes, and in 10 years when the faces have cleaned up you'll see this dad of 3 climbing the "classics' that have developed. but, like kenny, i've seen the chossy photos that have been posted on this site, and i know just how sketchy this climbing can be for the second ascentionist. the FA party generally topropes the route, decides which knobs might not blow, then sticks to them while those who come after get the fun of having them break off. and i love how the guide explains that some bolts seem unclippable, or random - until you realize that massive knobs and ledges have already broken off after just a few ascents. it doesn't have to be "fun" to be fun.

my friend went to the alvord desert july 4 weekend with his family (2 kids). He reported insane mosquitoes and heat. they never went in the springs or hiked. he also said the playa was covered with a foot of water, and there was no good way to walk on it, let alone drive on it. and he is not a wuss and has a huge toyota tacoma. i felt bad, i've talked steens up to him for years, though i told him fall would be better. anyway, maybe think about these issues in summer in southeast oregon.

"devastating troll" is a compliment in this forum, right?

yep. i totally got it on with marie weber while my wife was breastfeeding my baby and my kids were doing whippets.

Rob, i did already say there were all kinds of freaks there, and that i didn't want to camp there in part because of the freak factor - and having 3 kids to watch while there. so yeah, there was lots to laugh at. teenagers siting on buses dangling pipes on fishing wire over the road/path with signs saying "stuff me." that was funny. grown men wearing skirts and dressing like fairies. funny. professional types devoting a week or more to the event: funny. oly - all i did was be the first person to say anything different from the other comments. and if i'm generalizing climbers from the golden era, it's only to point out that most people on this site look up to those climbers, even though many of those climbers - were they 25 again today - would love to check out the rainbow gathering because in many respects it's really not that much different than a crowded campground of climbers.

it's always the same when i call bullshit on a thread, tossing a turd into the water: some people soften and explain or apologize and try to find a common ground. others double-down and attack, and stick to their guns. it's a great way to figure out who really is a jerk, or who really belives what they wrote.

right E-rock, the climbers in the 60s/70s had visions alright - of not working, and of enjoying an outdoor hobby instead. how revoltionary, what individuals. that had certainly never before occured in the history of the planet. and what a legacy they left..selling climbing gear? starting clothing lines? going back to college? framing houses? guiding? REI? patagonia? climbing gyms? you can generalize 10 to 20,000 people if you want, if it makes the world easier for you to process, but that's called a distortion. and because i went, you think you know me? no, you know the words i'm slinging in spray.

i hate arena rock. i hate crowds. that's why i didn't want to camp at the rainbow gathering with thousands of people. but i had a wife to please so i thought i'd show her what a nightmare it would have been to actually camp there with 3 kids. then we finally got to the "kiddie camp" and it was like any campground anywhere, except way cooler with swings on trees and improvised kitchens with mud/log ovens for baking, a nice dish-washing set-up, blah blah blah. and the latrine was WAY nicer and less stinky than the heinous pit privies you suffer through at most campgrounds, for the record. and i was the only one around when i took my 3 year old to use it. not a hippy in sight while she pooped. i was actually a bit bummed i negged the camping idea.

e-rock, i'm not really feeling the freak just yet. jump out of your closet, don't just wave those things at me.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...i went to the rainbow gathering with a fucking BABY in a stroller and a bunch of extra food and water for some burnouts who didn't bring enough because i have no sense of humor....or the absurd...what do you do for fun besides post on cc.com?

i took my wife, 4 month old daghter, 3 year old daughter and 5 year old son on a daytrip into the gathering. i did this after vetoing my wife's request to camp there a couple nights. we spent about 9 hours hiking from our car to the central meadow, then back. i'd say i got a pretty good feel for the vibe of the event. but when i read the comments from the 10-15 of you repeatedly posting on this thread, i realize i'd much rather hang out in the woods with the kind of people that go to the gathering than rope up with any of you. i don't care if you can lead 5-12 crack, you are expressing ignorance and hippocrisy. your average indian creek or joshua tree or camp 4 campsite has just as much hippiness, patchouli, ganga, booze, dirt, and sweat as the average rainbow gathering campsite. i was there. were you????? most of the people i met were like anyone see on a climbing trip, or while backpacking, or at a concert. OF COURSE there were FREAKS, but very few. and now that the event is over, where's all the stories about the horrible crime and environmental disaster you guys allege? if you guys had any self-confidence or security that you really were living a worthwhile life, why do you feel the need to just rip on 10 to 20 thousand strangers? why dont't you rip on our climbing heroes from the 70s for being stoners and thieves and welfare collectors, from california to england, - you know, doing the EXACT SAME SHIT AS HIPPIES - just so they could selfishly get high and not work at day jobs and put up the first ascents of what are now trade routes? oh, because they were CLIMBERS. now i get it. anyway, feel free to go take a piss or a shit on me for expressing some sincerity. it is after all what you guys do best.

i didn't realize anybody except you climbed at DZ, Joe!

joseph, good idea. in the next couple weeks i could get out there with you. send me a PM to figure out when.