Jim_Lavon

Impressive. Most impressive.

Thanks for the information Bogen. Reynaulds syndrome is something that sounds vaguely familiar. I know my mother always seems to have unnaturally cold hands. I don't have that particular problem at least, but Mom has seen the problems I have putting car chains on and insists that it runs in the family. I still think my problem goes back to minor frostbite. I wonder though if there could be a gender connection (Reynaulds)? I also seem to remember reading about a study of certain people who seemed to have some built in anti-freeze ability (BAT?). I used to think I did. Anyway, thanks for the information.

Thanks vw4ever, Dave and a1leyez0nm3. I do appreciate the information and the benefit of your experience. Those Marmot gloves look particularly nice - I might just give them a try since decent gloves are the things I'm still lacking, but the root of my problem goes back to carelessness as a youngster (frostbite). My mitts are great, but useless for taking pictures and they're something of a pain in the ass with trekking poles. I'm familiar with seal skinz, but have yet to try them myself and I exhausted the hunter store glove option early on (great deals there on an incredible range of things). For someone in my situation, I just have to remember not to bitch when my hands freeze up right after I take off my gloves/mitts to take pictures or whatever... It's usually worth the price as long as not too many people see the ritual I have to perform in order to thaw out.

Thanks Tad - that's more or less what I've done. Only took a month for me to respond to that one.

Yesterday could hardly have been more beautiful, but the snowfield conditions with the recent heat were the worst this newbie has seen. I should have had crampons. Saw the first crevasses and holes at about 7700'. The sound of running water echoing from below some of them sounded like a freight train. It still seemed to be true that most of these were to the right on the way up. The new snow is pretty much gone. I'd heard that these hazards only happened up around Anvil Rock...

Hey Pandora. The threshold for minor frostbite is so subtle you may not even know it until it's too late - and the damage is cumulative. Check out http://www.drreddy.com/frost.html for a good overview. I was one of those guys in my younger days who all but refused to wear gloves until I could barely feel my fingers and now I'm paying the price. Putting on tire chains nearly kills me! Of course, it's an individual thing and some people do seem to have anti-freeze for blood - I used to think I did. It pays to find your limits early.

If this is borne out as the truth - then perhaps we're a step closer to sending Jorge back to Texas. Secular Muslim countries are few and far between, but Iraq was one. Was this considered at all or was it simply more important to avenge the attempted assassination of his father? In any case you'd think that North Korea and Iran would have rated more attention...

Great shot Corvallisclimb. Your dad was lucky indeed to be there at that moment because shortly thereafer, Alaska/Horizon got nervous and cancelled 5 flights out of PDX.

"France has neither winter nor summer nor morals. Apart from these drawbacks it is a fine country. France has usually been governed by prostitutes." —Mark Twain "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." —General George S. Patton "Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." —Norman Schwartzkopf "We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it." —Marge Simpson "As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure." —Jacques Chirac, President of France "As far as France is concerned, you're right." —Rush Limbaugh "The only time France wants us to go to war is when the German Army is sitting in Paris sipping coffee." —Regis Philbin "The French are a smallish, monkey-looking bunch and not dressed any better, on average, than the citizens of Baltimore. True, you can sit outside in Paris and drink little cups of coffee, but why this is more stylish than sitting inside and drinking large glasses of whiskey I don't know." —P.J O'Rourke (1989) "You know, the French remind me a little bit of an aging actress of the 1940s who was still trying to dine out on her looks but doesn't have the face for it." —John McCain, U.S. Senator from Arizona "They've taken their own precautions against Al Qaeda. To prepare for an attack, each Frenchman is urged to keep duct tape, a white flag, and a three-day supply of mistresses in the house." —Argus Hamilton "The only way the French are going in is if we tell them we found truffles in Iraq." —Dennis Miller "I would call the French scumbags, but that, of course, would be a disservice to bags filled with scum. I say we invade Iraq, then invade Chirac." —Dennis Miller "You know why the French don't want to bomb Saddam Hussein? Because he hates America, he loves mistresses and wears a beret. He IS French, people." —Conan O'Brien "I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us get the Germans out of France!" —Jay Leno "The last time the French asked for 'more proof,' it came marching into Paris under a German flag." —David Letterman How many Frenchmen does it take to change a light bulb? One. He holds the bulb and all of Europe revolves around him. An old saying: Raise your right hand if you like the French.... Raise both hands if you are French. Next time there's a war in Europe, the loser has to keep France.

Who needs wine or anything else from the surrender monkeys anyway?

What's the deal with people wearing those lizard helmets in public anyway?

Hello everyone. After looking around for a while Wednesday morning, I settled on a pair of OR's "Summit" mitts from their Seattle store. By this point, money was no object anyway ($129.47 with Gary Locke's cut). I took them with me to the Muir Snowfield (Rainier) Thursday morning - and they were great! If it wasn't for the problems caused by my addiction to taking pictures - I might even say these mittens were toasty. Hell, they were toasty and of course, they really are waterproof - and I'll admit to cheating with those hand warmer things. Very roomy. Thanks again to you all for your advice and input. Now... if only it was possible to have a dry weekend (Wednesday / Thursday). Is that too much to ask? Welcome to Mount Rainier, perpetual land of Rain, Snow and Ice (guaranteed on Wednesdays and Thursdays)

Thanks for the additional advice Mtguide, fern, Squid & slothrop. Last night I checked this post and saw that it was too much to take in before leaving for work - so I printed it out and took it with me. Wow! You guys, especially you - Mtguide, have given me a lot of information. I would love to be in a position to complain that my gloves were too warm! I bought 15 of those hand warmers this morning and will use them on future trips. The consensus on this post seems to be leaning heavily towards mittens with liners. I'll pick them up tomorrow after checking out a few places besides REI. They've added the inevitable rain to Thursday's forecast - so I'll get to check out the new gloves and then bore you all with a review. As for cold weather training or adaptation (mind over matter - where there's a will, there's a way) I've used it often, but my hands seem to have a fixed physiological limit. I don't mind the numbness so much as I do the nearly disabling pain. It may be more than frostbite related. I've often heard that any serious bump or break in a joint will come back to haunt us later. Or maybe it just comes down to excessive wear and tear with the warranty voided. Anyway, I'm one of those guys who only very rarely turns the heat on - so cooler weather is OK by me. Some of my friends (one calls me polar bear) have told me that this has led to my problem! I don't buy it though. I did see a guy arrive at Camp Muir on the 12th of August with nothing but shorts, boots, trekking poles and a cell phone. No pack. A few people couldn't help teasing him about ordering a pizza. It wasn't cold by any means, but I was amazed that he could get up there without water. He told us that the snow and streams were all he needed - then he headed down. Anyway, thanks again everyone. I am much obliged.

Thanks externalX & bDubyaH. Jeez - I had no idea I'd get such a response with this! I was after OR gloves that day at REI, but they only had some microsized pairs left. They looked really practical and functional though. At the time, I still had some undefined resistance to the idea of mittens - still do! But, I'll get over it if I have to. The specs on those hand warmers is impressive - 135 degrees for several hours! I don't know why they aren't listed as a recommended item for climbing - well I can't speak from experience yet, but will be able to after Thursday. I didn't know OR had a local store. I'll have to check it out. I've been in the area 6 years and have limited myself to REI so far - probably more out of laziness than anything else. Or maybe it's the lure of that dividend check? Not. Time to get out more I guess. If it ever stops raining. Thanks again you guys. I appreciate it.

Thanks Cracked. More practical advice. Yeah - I wondered about that waterproof business as well - unless you put a tourniquet on your wrists...how do you keep out the rain? I'll have those hand warmers on future trips as insurance. Are mittens compatible with trekking poles and scrambling? Dumb question. Obviously yes. Haven't tried mittens for years. I like the idea of using them with the hand warmers and the dexterity with the liners that would still allow me to use a camera. Get ready REI. I hope they've restocked. I'll go in there and make a careful, well thought out decision. Thanks again.